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HIV/AIDS Blog Central

Steaming Hot Monkey Fusion Sex!

By Bob Frascino, M.D.

March 20, 2010

I assumed the title of this latest blog-o-specimen would intrigue not only those with prurient interests, but also horn-dogs throughout the cyber universe. And here you all are! Welcome! (I'll leave it to each of you to decide in which category you belong.)

Before diving into today's x-rated featurette, I wanted to take just a moment to thank all those who took the time to post a comment on my first two blog entries ("Life, Love, Sex, HIV, and Other Unscheduled Events" and "A Chronic, Not Always So Manageable, Condition"), including the dude who so completely misinterpreted the intent of my last blog that he referred to me as "the prophet of doom" and the other fluffernutter who wanted to hold me personally responsible for "exacerbating the psychological collateral our community has been burdened with. ..." Hmm. Nonetheless, thanks to one and all for the lively interchange! Let's keep the conversation going.

I fully realize I owe you all a "part deux" for my "A Chronic, Not Always So Manageable, Condition" rant, and I promise you'll get it eventually, OK? However, today I've got something else occupying my mind -- sex! OK. OK. As a cyber sexpert on The Body's expert forum and a person of Italian descent, I tend to have sex on my mind a lot, but that's beside the point. So without further foreplay, let's get to it, shall we?

The Urban Dictionary defines monkey sex several ways:

  1. Sex with a monkey.
  2. The joyful but tiresome act of sexual intercourse while hanging from the monkey bars.
  3. The communal act of rough ... wild ... passionate ... primatial fornication, usually accompanied by various vocal tones and frantic leg humping as commonly seen in orangutans. It is also customary to wear "Planet of the Apes" costumes when having hot monkey sex.

I can hear you all saying "very interesting, but what does this have to do with HIV/AIDS?" Great question! Thanks for asking! I'm fairly certain you all have considerable personal experience with the three types of hot monkey sex described above; consequently, I wanted to discuss yet another variation: hot monkey FUSION sex. It's central to understanding my response to a persistent "QTND" (question that never dies). That eternal question simply put is: Did monkeying around with monkeys cause AIDS or is HIV/AIDS really the result of a botched governmental/scientific plot?

There can be no doubt the origin of HIV/AIDS has puzzled, intrigued and fascinated scientists and conspiracy theorists since the devastating new disease was first recognized in the early 80s. Theories abound, including:

  1. A secret governmental biological warfare program from the Cold War gone terribly wrong.
  2. A secret plot to exterminate gays and drug users.
  3. The unfortunate consequence of a horned-up safari hunter screwing Magilla the Gorilla.

So here's the real scoop. But, be forewarned: this scoop involves some poop! HIV (human immunodeficiency virus) evolved from SIV (simian immunodeficiency virus) in chimps. This wasn't confirmed until 2006, because, as it turns out, chimps in the wild aren't all that crazy about sticking their arms out for blood tests. Consequently, intrepid scientists had to develop another method for tracking the virus. They did so by isolating viral remnants in monkey turds. Yep, they traipsed through the jungle collecting, schlepping and analyzing monkey poop! (And you thought you had a shitty job!) SIV was identified in several types of monkeys in West-Central Africa. Despite the titillating possibility that HIV jumped from species to species via hot monkey sex with a horned-up safari dude, this is not the case. Sorry to disappoint all you zoophiles (you know who you are!).

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We are now quite certain the cross-species jump used the food chain rather than the boudoir. Long story short, here's what we think happened. Monkey #1 (let's call him "Chimp Zero") hunts, kills and eats an SIV-infected chimp of the red-capped mangabey variety as well as another SIV-infected chimp of the spotted nose variety. These two different strains of SIV have a viral quickie-nookie (hot monkey FUSION sex) and WHAM-BAM-THANK-YOU-SAM a new strain of SIV is born. This new strain has the capability of mutating in humans (to HIV).

Now Chimp Zero carrying the new strain of SIV is unlucky enough to get hunted, killed and butchered by a feckless human. Chimp Zero's infected blood gets into the human bloodstream, either by (1) a cut on the hunter's hand (he could have been clumsy with his machete!) or (2) eating an undercooked chimp-entrée (monkey chops should never be served rare!). The SIV then mutates to adapt to its human host and voila! We now have a previously unknown retrovirus with the unique ability to destroy the human immune system. And here's the real kicker, the new virus is spread via humankind's favorite pastime: monkeying around!

Although HIV wasn't formally recognized until 1981, we've now uncovered the virus in plasma samples stored as far back as 1959 from a dude who lived in the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

But what about all the snazzy conspiracy theories and government-sponsored scientific plots and programs gone wrong? Well, rational thought is often an enigma to conspiracy theorists, but let's at least try to look at the science (facts) and logic rationally.

As I mentioned, there is sound scientific evidence that HIV has been infecting humans as far back as the 1950s. Does anyone really think crazed scientists were creating highly sophisticated retroviruses in the laboratory in the era that was pre-Beatles, pre-Kennedy, pre-fax machines??? Frevinsakes!!! As Mr. Spock would say, "That is just not logical." Then again, conspiracy theories seldom are!

OK, but what about a highly secret malicious plot to wipe out gays and drug users?!?!?! Well, the epidemic began in rural Africa, right? Rural Africa is not exactly a hotbed of hedonistic gay pleasure domes and bathhouses or intravenous heroin dens! Why would the evil scientists hatch their dastardly scheme in sub-Saharan safari country? Who were they trying to wipe out? Tarzan? True, he did wear only a loincloth (very gay) and was known to be a swinger (from vines), but Jane swears he was straight as a lawn dart.

So there you have it. The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Now all you conspiracy theorists can go back to investigating the giant reptiles that are breeding in the sewers beneath Manhattan.

Until next time, this is Dr. Bob wishing steaming, hot, toe-curling, wake-the-neighbors, own-name-forgetting "safe" monkey sex to one and all.

Want to get in touch with Dr. Bob? You can reach him through his "Ask the Experts" forum, by sending a message to the Robert James Frascino AIDS Foundation, or by leaving a comment for him below. (If it's a private message, or if it includes personal info such as your e-mail address or phone number, we won't post the comment, but we will send it along to him.)

See Also
More on the Origins of HIV

Reader Comments:

Comment by: claude (australia) Tue., Sep. 28, 2010 at 7:55 pm EDT
I've also seen docos claiming that the virus was mearnt as a weapon against those African fighters resisting European rule/colonialisation in Africa. They were actually called "Gorillas" these dudes (possibly because of their combat tactics). It sort of made sense to me then and I haven't heard a good agument refuting this "theory". Actually whole regiments were wiped out - by disease - and a few nutters survived eg S Machel, R Mugabe, N Mandela, K Kaunda, K Nkhurumah, J Zuma, S Nuyoma, J Nyerere etc.
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Comment by: Friend from India (India) Sat., May. 1, 2010 at 5:10 am EDT
Hi Dr. Bob,

As a straight, negative male, my conspiracy theory states that HIV is the only way to remain loyal. especially when either the brain or the little johnny function at one time.

Damn! Could'nt the virus find out another way to spread itself, rather than SEX?!
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Comment by: Apollo (San Francisco, Ca) Sat., Apr. 24, 2010 at 12:20 pm EDT
How about this monkey business?http://www.youtube.com/user/SetYouFreee#p/c/55E2B66C8EA26560/0/_Ur8ULtKnWM
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Comment by: Jack (Elk Grove, CA) Thu., Apr. 15, 2010 at 2:32 pm EDT
nice article. however chimps are apes, not monkeys. it's good to see they are getting closer and closer to discovering the root of our current situation.

on a side note; i am a pos 32 year old gay male in a relationship with a pos 18 year old gay male. july will be a year and every time we see eachother we have the most amazing toe-curling, wake the neighbors, passionate and long-lasting sex. i rate it above breathing on my scale.

hiv does not hinder your libido unless you let it. needless to say, neither of us lets our status affect our relationship. inhibitions only inhibit...thats why they're called inhibitions. lose them, you will thank me. just be safe.
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Comment by: Gary (San Diego, CA) Tue., Apr. 13, 2010 at 2:48 pm EDT
"Now Chimp Zero carrying the new strain of SIV is unlucky enough to get hunted, killed and butchered by a feckless human." Seems to me the chimp was feckless; it was the human who was unlucky.
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Comment by: T.rex (Los Angeles) Mon., Apr. 5, 2010 at 9:42 pm EDT
i believe hiv has been in primates (humans and monkeys) since the dawn of man and before.

There's not a pandemic in Africa (at least not because of hiv). People were been born with it for hundreds of 1000s of years, and lived entirely normal, healthy lives. Its harmless. Its seems to be running rampant, only because testing is running rampant. The population is not affected, whatsoever. People are dying of the same things they've been dying of forever.
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Comment by: RenZo (NY) Sun., Apr. 4, 2010 at 7:07 pm EDT
Excuse me doc, I probably misunderstood but did you try to explain how two different viruses from two different species of monkeys had sexual intercourse and produce a fertile hybrid of a virus? I am not familiar with the universe where that science originates.
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Comment by: Dennis (Chicago, IL) Sun., Apr. 4, 2010 at 9:59 am EDT
Thanks for the very honest(and funny)explanation..
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Comment by: Stan (KA) Fri., Apr. 2, 2010 at 7:57 am EDT
Entertaining!, well Dr.Bob, the issue is no longer the origin. It is how long it is taking to find a cure or vaccine; this delay is the one that concretizes both the theory of Government involvement in creating HIV for reasons only known to the INNER CIRCLE. I also now want to believe that scientist got HIV/AIDS all wrong-they just do not understand it and it will be only untill they revist the basics and even invite and work with those with different views (labled DISSIDENTS), that a solution will be found. God bless!
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Comment by: Michelle (New Zealand) Sun., Mar. 28, 2010 at 7:18 pm EDT
Hi Dr. Bob,
Thanks for your blog entry on the origins of AIDS. There is another very compelling theory that you seem to have overlooked – the iatrogenic theory of origin which proposes that the AIDS pandemic was sparked by the vaccination of approximately one million Africans with an experimental OPV called CHAT.

This theory is consistent with your statement that “we've now uncovered the virus in plasma samples stored as far back as 1959 from a dude who lived in the Democratic Republic of the Congo.”
For more information visit www.aidsorigins.com. Below is an excerpt from the abstract of Edward Hooper’s “Dephlogistication, Imperial Display, Apes, Angels, and theReturn of Monsieur Émile Zola”, Atti dei Convegni Lincei; 2003; 187; 27-230. Atti dei Convegni Lincei; 2003; 187; 27-230. This is part of the proceedings of the round table conference on "Origin of HIV and Emerging Persistent Viruses", published as ISBN 88-218-0885-8.
From 1956 (at the latest), the major departments within that lab were routinely using tissue cultures prepared from chimpanzee cells (often with chimpanzee sera employed as growth medium). No other type of tissue culture is mentioned by these sources until a few tubes and bottles of baboon tissue culture, which were prepared experimentally in the middle of 1958. Until now, tissue culture and polio vaccine preparation at the LMS has been a subject surrounded by secrecy, for which documentation was either missing or misleading. What this new evidence strongly indicates is that the oral polio vaccines distributed by the LMS up to at least the middle of 1958 (save for 2,000 doses brought from the US in capsule form) were given a final passage in chimpanzee cells. The fact that the closest known relative to HIV-1 Group M is the simian immunodeficiency virus of the common chimpanzee (SIVcpz), raises the question of whether this might be the way in which SIVcpz transferred to humans to give birth to HIV-1 Group M, and thus to the AIDS pandemic.
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Comment by: Fast Eddie (Buffalo, NY) Sun., Mar. 28, 2010 at 12:01 am EDT
Being one of those who don't trust our government on very much that it allows the media to report on, I have to still believe their might be credence in genetically splicing two known viruses, the bovine virus and the sheep vesna virus. See how much info you can get on a little island of the coast of Massachusetts called Plum Island. I have heard a few researchers who have done research their make some interesting comments about the type of research that is being conducted there. I had a professor of mine who actually worked with Watkins and Crick at Oxford. He personally witnessed cloning of a frog back in the 60's that not many have been privy to. I don't buy into the theory that (can't think of his name off hand) a gay airline steward who visited many bath houses is responsible for spreading HIV. No one has been able to prove that he is patient zero. Well Bob, thanks for reading. Peace be with you my friend.
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Comment by: g monley (wr ga) Sat., Mar. 27, 2010 at 9:50 am EDT
Very informative. Maybe someone should point this out to the folks who enjoy the delicacy of monkey brains. I mean really how good could that taste anyway. Not enough to start the epidemic that is plaguing our world.
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Comment by: Fri., Mar. 26, 2010 at 1:56 pm EDT
Well, Dr. who says the blood samples from the late 5os is legit?
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Comment by: Tim (Riverside CA) Fri., Mar. 26, 2010 at 10:38 am EDT
I also saw the documentary regarding the polio vaccine experiment. It made a very compelling argument, and provided detailed scientific argument. Dr. Bob it would be well worth your time to get a copy of it and then give us your opinion.
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Comment by: Dr. Bob (another) (Moscow, Russia) Fri., Mar. 26, 2010 at 4:22 am EDT
Dear Robert -

Nice scenario and undoubtedly accurate. But here's something I have thought about for some time: How many times in human history has this happened? I'll bet more than once. How many small clusters of isolated humans in Africahave been infected with something similar and just vanished over the past 100,000 years? I'm sure that SIV has been around that long as well; just as I'm sure that monkey meat must be a delicious treat. The difference in 1950? Air / Rail travel and an overcrowded planet. We can't blame the monkeys for this epidemic. We did it to ourselves. As the population continues togrow exponentially, we will surely do it again.
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Comment by: RStevenG (Taiwan) Thu., Mar. 25, 2010 at 11:57 pm EDT
As a biology teacher, former biomedical researcher, but more importantly, a world traveler who has lived and traveled around Africa, this last post caught my eye and I could not ignore it.
It bothers me on several levels.
One, there is a mountain of scientific and lay resources summarizing, reviewing and explaining the data on this virus. How anyone can honestly think that this virus was transmitted with a motive is beyond me.
Secondly, it is typical of most Americans (I am a citizen too) to think the world revolves around them. I have traveled for 20 years around Africa and lived in Zambia for several years. There people think HIV is a western plot to kill Africans. This epidemic is killing Africans at a rate the average American has no idea. If HIV is to be associated with anyone, it should be Africans. It began there and is thriving there. Please people, wake up! This is a virus that need a certain type of cell in which to live and reproduce. It only chooses a cell type - not a race, not a gender, not a lifestyle or sexual preference. Why in the 21st century with so many educational resources do people continue to remain ignorant?

Americans do not realize that the world used to look up to our country for its leadership and ability to tackle tough problems. Now the world just shakes its collective head at the way we act. Time to get with the program and realize we are part of the world. Hasn't this virus proven that to us?
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Comment by: Ted (Louisville) Thu., Mar. 25, 2010 at 11:31 pm EDT
I watched a documentary about HIV and the polio vaccine. It seems very possible this could have been mode of transmission. Africans have been eating monkeys for thousands of years. Wouldn't it have spread a very long time ago? They did use monkey tissue for the vaccine like we use eggs today. We have evidence of HIV following this mass vaccination. I lean toward the vaccine and not from just eating them. I do not believe it was a gov't conspiracy. We didn't care about the Africans. I suppose you could make the argument our gov't would use the Africans as guinea pigs for some biological toxin; however, we already developed many biological agents that kill people right away--not years and decades down the road.

So Polio Vaccine or maybe eating the monkeys
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Comment by: Bob (San Antonio, Texas) Thu., Mar. 25, 2010 at 11:22 pm EDT
Something I forgot to mention to everyone reading these comments. How many of you saw or heard about the two doctors in Houston, Texas? They think they have the answer to a cure. Go to youtube and type in "possible cure for HIV" it's about those two doctors in Houston. We all know that the virus can mutate. But what part of the virus has to remain the same for it to enter white blood cells. I've tried to get ahold of these two doctors for over a year now without any results in hearing back from them. To be very honest with everyone here, I am HIV negative. My heart goes out to everyone who has this in their blood. I would like to be one of those selected for trial testing of this abzym those two doctors have come up with. No, I'm not reckless with my health. I have special feelings for someone who does have HIV and I want this person in my life. If I can help with this research in any way I can, I will. I would like to see a cure for this asap. Watch the video people, watch the video. If something should go wrong for me during a trial test, then so be it and God have mercy on my soul for trying.
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Comment by: Bob (San Antonio, Texas) Thu., Mar. 25, 2010 at 9:42 pm EDT
Ah! What if government agents really did develop this virus for ethnic cleansing of their own kind. This virus goes back to the fifties? Isn't that when America was going through so much turmoil in the 50's and 60's with civil rights? I still think it was developed for a government cleansing of blacks and gays along with the drug users. But something went wrong! They didn't think there would be any bisexual men out there to get it and spread it too. What do you think?
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Comment by: Not Thomas (Southampton, UK) Thu., Mar. 25, 2010 at 8:46 pm EDT
Dr Bob, I am an avid reader of your forum and blogs. Once again you raise a laugh with your well written humorous take on this nightmare scenario we all find ourselves in. But could you please address the issue of emerging immunodeficiency viruses. You might remember answering my questions in your safe sex forum. The fact is that there is over 30 different strains of SIV infecting old world monkeys and other primates. What about those individuals like myself who have declining CD4 counts and a potential exposure to an African link, yet negative EIA's. It has already been established that SIV from mandrills has also made the species jump. What about HIV 2? Should we not be lobbying for governments to devise testing sereologies that span the full plethora of immunodefiency viruses? Anyway, thanks again for the blog, I always love to hear your take on things.
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Comment by: Mike (Tallahassee, Fl) Thu., Mar. 25, 2010 at 7:32 pm EDT
"Here's what we think happened," said Dr. Bob. What we know is thousands of German and Japanese scientists were secreted into the US to continue biological experiments all the way back to the time of Ozzie and Harriet. The disease was intended to clear the continent of Africa.
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Comment by: Billy Bob (MD) Thu., Mar. 25, 2010 at 4:07 pm EDT
Lets not forget that doctors ground up monkey livers to make a polio vaccine.
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Comment by: anonymous (Utah) Thu., Mar. 25, 2010 at 3:14 pm EDT
One conspiracy theory that you didn't mention was that HIV was developed by scientists in South Africa as a genocidal weapon against black Africans and it is designed to be more effective againts people of African descent.
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Comment by: Douglas (Miami Beach) Thu., Mar. 25, 2010 at 2:31 pm EDT
Another reason to be vegetarian...
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Comment by: greg (Minneapolis) Thu., Mar. 25, 2010 at 4:42 am EDT
Interesting. While I think Don Juan is a bit kooky (and could benefit from a grammar brush up class) I think he raises an interesting question. Scientists were certainly aware of epidemic diseases in Africa back in the 50's but where in the literature is there reference to people dying from PCP or KS in Africa at that time?

What changed between the 50's and the 80's?
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Comment by: Mark S. King (Fort Lauderdale, FL) Wed., Mar. 24, 2010 at 6:29 pm EDT
Well, well. I came for the hot monkey sex, I'll admit, but stayed for a the interesting epidemiological review!

Take it from another blogmeister: conflicting comments and debate are the building blocks of learning, reason, and a great blog. Your writing is so interesting and entertaining in and of itself, and needn't concern itself with addressing the verbal rants created by previous postings. Onward and upward! Keep it up! Don't look back!

I look forward to your blogs. And I'm happy yours is being read by all sorts of people, as colorful as they may be...
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Comment by: Chrlthurm (Phx, AZ) Wed., Mar. 24, 2010 at 4:19 pm EDT
LMAO! Right on! Love reading you posts!
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Comment by: Zorot (USA) Tue., Mar. 23, 2010 at 9:13 pm EDT
Nice Job Dr. Bob, what else you will write , defending Governments, Pharmas, Meds, your list of donors is getting long as I see
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Comment by: Monkey See. Monkey Do (Boston, MA) Sun., Mar. 21, 2010 at 10:20 pm EDT
Damn.

Now that the cat's out of the bag, what are the conspiracy theorists supposed to get all zealous about?

Dr. Bob, you really know how to burst a crazy right-wing-gun-toting-flannel-wearing-weapons-armamentarium-building guy's bubble.

Once again, good work, albeit HIV may have been transfered from the chimpanzee to humans via a bite with blood from the cannibalistic feast. This may be more probable than the two scenarios you've given.
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Comment by: don juan (la ca) Sat., Mar. 20, 2010 at 11:18 pm EDT
Continued, so they trigger an immune respone to make the body immune to Hep b. But they cotain live viruses as well as SIV and with that mixture created HIV. SIV can't just decide one day oh I want to infect humans now, no it has to acctually genitically alter itself so that it can infect humans. So back to the facts this vaccine was tested in a trial in west africa with success. Then a trial in New York City because they had it really bad to homosexuals mostly were being infected with Hep b at a very rapid rate. So they had trial vaccines there. Now everyone starts getting this strange illness in the gay community in New York just the immune system deterirating and in west africa. I mean so fast that it just wasn't possible to go from africa to New York that fast. That's one way it most likely happend look it up. Ill post a reference if I find it again. Now onto #2. Which is less likely but still very possible living in the united states. There was a massive biowarfare research going on bye U.S and Russia. It began at ww2 ro be used on Japan if possible. One of the main focuses was immune system deteriorating weapons. So Robert Gallo was put in charge of biowarfare he actively studying reversetranscriptase and retroviruses and so on. His main project for the governments was a virus that will destroy the immune system. At the same time america is out of control homosexuallity on the rise hippys haveing sex in. The streets. Drug abuse protests it was really makeing a very conservative america look bad. So one simple solution. Deploy the weapon that the scientist created for bioterror to bring new world order to society. HIV complete,y altered societys behavior very fast. And goodbye hippys. People stoped having sex in public smokeing pot protesting and so on and so on. The government was also seeking a plan for Population control and ways to make society need the government and ways to kinda munipulate the masses.
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Comment by: don juan (la ca) Sat., Mar. 20, 2010 at 10:57 pm EDT
If that where true hiv would have been a pandemic long before the 60's. Africans have been hunting and eating monkeys for hundreds of years why did it become a pandemic so late. And america got hit right after africa in new york city. So your tellin me there's more britans in africa then americans why did it decide to skip everyone else and come here next. Doctor Bob you no your smarter than that and you can't believe this one. Its just not logical at all. The merck vaccine leading scientist at that time was studying undetectable viruses. He said to some fellow scientists We need to start rethinking these live virus vaccines they had over forty viruses in them not include the undetectble ones that he had just discovered. All the sudden people who received the vaccine stared to become ill, and get cancer and birth deffects from these viuses. So they created another one much safer. So there's proof that science experiments can and do go wrong. Now onto HIV. 1) The same man who worked for merck makeing vaccines had to create a hep b vaccine. There was an outbreak of hep b in africa and new york city and elswhere but I mention the two above for reasons ill state later. Now he was somehow using monkeys to create his vaccines. I don't know why or how he just was maybe to test them in them or used something in them to create the vaccine. Now these monkeys kept getting sick and haveing problems so he said I can't do this with these monkeys I give up. Now a collugue of his said get green monkeys I believe that's what they were called from west africa. So he did flew them into philadelphia or New York city and he would pick them up there. He later says in his interview " I didn't know I was bringing the aids virus to the united states". Now he's using monkeys that are infected with siv to create a hep b vaccine. Now at this time they didn't know of siv or a lot of undetectable viruses. So know with these live culture viruses that triggers an immune response that
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Comment by: Dave (NJ) Sat., Mar. 20, 2010 at 10:42 pm EDT
Great tracing of the pathogenesis of HIV to man. Education is the key to hopefully one day, reducing or qwelling the stigma aasociated with this horrible disease. Reading your post on "Ask the experts" and now on this blog are not only informative, but entertaining as well. Thank you!!! XOXO
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Life, Love, Sex, HIV and Other Unscheduled Events


Bob Frascino, M.D., was President and Founder of The Robert James Frascino AIDS Foundation. He had been an outspoken, popular expert in TheBody.com's "Ask the Experts" forums on safe sex and fatigue/anemia since 2000. Once a Fellow of the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology, and the American Academy of Pediatrics, Dr. Frascino served as Associate Clinical Professor of Medicine, Division of Immunology, Rheumatology, and Allergy, at Stanford University Medical Center from 1983 until 2001. He was a member of the American Academy of HIV Medicine and had also been a distinguished member of the executive boards of numerous state and regional associations.

We're inexpressibly saddened to share the news that Dr. Frascino passed away unexpectedly on Saturday, Sept. 17, 2011. Click here to read more and to share your thoughts.


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