A Hundred Indecisions: A Tale of Starting MedsMarch 17, 2010 "Dis moi I tend to be somewhat indecisive by nature. When making any kind of important decision, I try my best to gather all of the relevant facts so that the final decision I make will be a well-informed one. I seek to exhaust all avenues of inquiry that may bear on the decision before I make it. As you can imagine, this often leads to a long, drawn-out process in which I will go back and forth several times before making up my mind and settling on what I should do. My professional training probably hasn't helped in this regard. As a lawyer, I can usually see -- and argue -- all sides of an issue. In my work life, this isn't a bad thing. In fact, it's a necessary skill. I have to be able to see not only the strengths of my own case but also the strengths of my opponent's. To fully understand and present my side, I must be able to place myself in the adverse party's position and argue his. Given my personality and professional background, it probably won't surprise you that I had a very tough time deciding whether or not I should start antiretroviral medication. My decision was made even more difficult because no one seems to agree on exactly when a person in my situation should start meds. I've written previously about my body's ability to maintain a low viral load in the absence of medication (Control Queen). I also noted that despite this ability, my CD4 count was gradually drifting downward. Recently, I reached the point where two successive counts were below 500. On top of that, in January I traveled to Bethesda, Maryland to donate blood plasma for the NIH [U.S. National Institute of Health]'s LTNP [Long-Term Nonprogressor] study, and NIH's testing put my CD4 count below 400 for the first time. My viral load, though, remained stubbornly low at 1,816. And putting all the test results aside, lately I just haven't been feeling so hot. So I did some research and looked to see what the finest minds in this field were saying. Instead of a consensus of opinion pointing me in a certain direction, I discovered something of a disagreement about how best to proceed. On one end of the spectrum were luminaries such as UCSF's Dr. Steven Deeks. Dr. Deeks thinks "essentially -- everyone with HIV needs to be on meds unless there's a reason not to be." Somewhere in the middle is another eminent researcher, Dr. Peter Hunt. Back in October 2009, at the HIV Controller Symposium sponsored by the Zephyr Foundation and Shanti, Dr. Hunt gave a very informative presentation on the adverse effects HIV appears to have even on people who maintain good viral suppression. So I asked Dr. Hunt directly whether he would recommend treatment for someone with my then-current numbers (CD4 a bit above 500 and viral load below 2,000). He hedged, calling it an individual decision. While at NIH in January, I asked Dr. Stephen Migueles, another prominent researcher, whether he would advise starting meds. He, too, gave guarded counsel. He told me that my CD4 count should "concern" me, but did not say that I should begin treatment. Finally, I turned to a researcher with whom I have had a long relationship and who is truly a legend in the field of HIV -- Dr. Jay Levy. During one of my regular visits to his laboratory to donate blood, I asked Dr. Levy for his view. He was emphatic. He was unconvinced by the studies that seemed to show some benefit to beginning antiretroviral treatment once CD4 counts dropped below 500, as opposed to waiting until they were below 350. He went on to describe what he saw as the defects in those studies and to try to explain why they did not necessarily support the conclusion that starting at 500 was better than starting at 350. (To be honest, since I lack any medical background, I couldn't really understand his explanation.) He did allow, however, that my case was at least "arguable." Thus, I found myself faced with somewhat conflicting advice. All of my efforts to gather facts and to make an "informed" decision had only led me to an unhappy place where I had plenty of information but no clear right answer. I asked myself, how is a layman like me to make a decision on something about which the most knowledgeable doctors disagree? In the end, I based my decision not on all of my research, not on the opinions of experts, and not on any guidelines. As your mother always told you, it's better to be safe than sorry, and I chose to apply that bit of folk wisdom to my situation. Since the medications now available are a lot better tolerated than earlier ones, it seemed preferable to begin treatment and prevent any further decline in my immune system. Therefore, on my last visit to my doctor, I got prescriptions for Truvada and Isentress. I went straight to the pharmacy and filled them. The following Friday evening, I swallowed my first antiretroviral medications. And you know what? It's only been two weeks at this writing, and I already feel better. No, I don't think the medications are already having a physical effect. Instead, I think the best explanation for my improved sense of well being comes from the medieval Jewish philosopher Maimonides (1137-1204) who said, "The risk of a wrong decision is preferable to the terror of indecision." I realize that a large part of what was bothering me was simply the anguish of worrying about whether I was doing the right thing. Just putting the decision behind me has been a tremendous relief. I guess the lesson is that sometimes just making a decision is the right decision. Read more of Outlier: My Unusual Journey With HIV, fogcityjohn's blog, at TheBody.com. This article was provided by TheBody.com.
Comment by: tammy taylor
(san francisco,ca)
Mon., Apr. 5, 2010 at 4:34 pm EDT i am a 39 year old women who belives that the more positive thoughts of how those little soliders are fighting for your life everyday the you'll grow to respect them, i know i sure do. i've been positive since november of 01' and began began my journey with my soliders since may of o6' i am very blessed to be able to have the option to be medicated and a chance empower myself with education, i am eager to really connect with others whom want the same... peace of mind and comfort of knowing that our lives our worth fighting for!!!
Comment by: fogcityjohn
(San Francisco, CA)
Tue., Mar. 30, 2010 at 5:32 pm EDT @ Vik in Kenya: First of all, I'm not a doctor, so while I'm happy to respond to you, you should not take anything I say as medical advice. For that, I'd encourage you to go to the Ask the Experts section here at TheBody.com and ask one of the doctors any questions you have. That said, my understanding is that since you've had a detectable viral load (even if it's really low), you're probably not an "elite" controller. You sound like a viremic controller, though. Of course, there's no generalized agreement on what the terms "elite controller" and "viremic controller" mean, so I'm just giving you my opinion based upon what I've read in this area. As for having a child, I know that there are NGOs in Kenya that work on preventing mother to child transmission. Pathfinder International is one of them. You can find them at www.pathfind.org. They have a page devoted to their projects in Kenya. I suspect you won't be able to breastfeed your baby, because the virus can be transmitted through a mother's breast milk, but you can ask the docs here for information about that too. Finally, thank you for your very kind comments on my blog. I am glad you found something valuable in it. I wish you the very best of luck and hope you'll keep us posted on how you're doing.
Comment by: Vik
(Kenya)
Tue., Mar. 30, 2010 at 8:08 am EDT Thanks for your article. I can identify with you.I have been positive since 2001( when my tests came positive).Like you am able to control the virus.my CD4 is over 1000 at the moment..it started at about 1300 plus and is not at 1160..my viral load has been undectectable until the last 2 years..my last result showed it at 198.....i know i may still have a long way to go before medication but i often have lots and lots of thoughts...like am i an elite or viremic controller? i agree that there is so much info that sometimes it confuses rather than clarifies..... I am 41 years old and planning to have a baby..again food for thought...do you know anywhere/anyone where or who i can consult? i have read so much in the body.com but still quest for more...i would want to have a normal delivery( not C-section) and also brest feed my baby...this are two controversial topics.... I could go on an on. Thanks for the blog and for sharing your experience.It means so much to me...i have not disclosed my status to anyone except by boyfriend(HE IS NEGATIVE) and my doctor.i kinda feel undercover... Best Regards, Vik
Comment by: fogcityjohn
(San Francisco, CA)
Sat., Mar. 27, 2010 at 9:40 pm EDT @ Spice in Copenhagen, DK: Thanks for reading and commenting. It's always amazing to find out that people on the other side of the world are reading what I've written. This Internet thing is wonderful, isn't it? Best of luck starting meds. I understand that Atripla is a well-tolerated drug, and it's great that all you have to do is take one pill a day. And don't forget that even if there are some side-effects, there are other available drug combinations out there. @ Ted in Louisville: If your CD4 count is stable at 800, the current guidelines wouldn't call for starting treatment, although I am sure you could start if you felt you were ready. As I mentioned in my post, Dr. Deeks would recommend putting you on meds, but then, he thinks that even elite controllers should be on meds. Your situation is more difficult than mine in a sense, since your CD4 count is well above 500, which is the point at which the guidelines recommend starting therapy. So for you the decision is purely one of choice. As for Atripla, I'm resistant to it too, or more specifically resistant to the sustiva in it. But I'm not so bothered by that since it's not a drug that's recommended for people with clinical depression, which I have. If you're unsure what to do, you might head over to the Ask the Experts section and get Ben Young's take on your situation. In my experience, he's always extremely forthcoming and helpful.
Comment by: Spice
(Copenhagen, Denmark)
Fri., Mar. 26, 2010 at 6:02 pm EDT Hi John, thank you so much for sharing your experiences on your blog. I found you via thebody.com. I tested positive back in 99 and this week I've made the decision to start on Atripla after my docs recomendation. Took the meds with med last tuesday and will start taking it next thursday (my partner is alway for the next days and I prefer to start when he is at home and during the easter holidays). Wish me luck! ;)
Comment by: Ted
(Louisville, KY)
Thu., Mar. 25, 2010 at 11:57 pm EDT It has been a big decision for me (as for many of us) as to when to start meds. I found out I was poz in Dec '08 after getting strep-pneumonia and hospitalized for a week. I was actually diagnosed with AIDS as my CD4 was 171; however, I was told it was artificially low due to being sick. Sure enough, it jumped back up and CD4 has been around 800 for over a year now with my vl being around 15,000 on average. I fear getting sick with something again. However, my doc just told me I'm doing so well that I can wait 4 months to come back. I said I'll stick to 3 for now. I've read a lot about the unseen damage HIV does. If I don't need to start, I don't want to start. I suppose if I started getting weird infections, it would prompt me to start at my numbers. About feeling better on meds: I was given HIV meds in the hospital without my knowledge and no plan to continue. Big mistake as I'm now resistant to Atripla. However, even recovering from pneumonia, I think I actually felt better back then. The meds had gotten my vl undetectable in that short time. So, as I deal with fatigue issues now, I often think about starting meds. But then I think it is the depression causing the fatigue. It does leave a person wondering what to do.
Comment by: fogcityjohn
(San Francisco, CA)
Thu., Mar. 25, 2010 at 6:32 pm EDT @ Rodger in Toronto: I understand that the USFDA is set to consider tesamorelin in May and that it could be approved this summer. After that comes the question (at least here in America) whether insurance will pay for the drug. There has been some discussion that it will not be covered because visceral lipohypertrophy is considered a purely "cosmetic" problem. That's not a view I agree with, but it appears that it could create some problems for people with HIV who want access to this very expensive drug. BTW, congrats on getting to undetectable. That's fantastic news!
Comment by: Rodger
(Toronto)
Thu., Mar. 25, 2010 at 1:33 pm EDT I just got my first undetectable VL reading today after just under 3 months on meds. Feeling really good about that. As for lipo, I just heard about the first anti-lipo med that I've been made aware of, called Tesamorelin (brand name Egrifta). I am hoping their will be more developments in this area to give some relief and peace of mind to everyone affected in different ways by lipo.
Comment by: newyorker
(new york, ny)
Wed., Mar. 24, 2010 at 8:26 pm EDT awesome combo. i discovered my status 8/25/09 and received my first t-cell and viral load results 9/14 (t249, vl 189,000) on 9/15 i started truvada and isentress- within 30 days vl was down to 60 and t cell bounced to 500. only mild initial side effects (during the first two weeks)
Comment by: fogcityjohn
(San Francisco, CA)
Wed., Mar. 24, 2010 at 6:07 pm EDT @ Eddie in Houston: I'm always keeping my eye out for new research on meds in development. I'm excited about a lot of the things I read, even if I lack the expertise to understand them fully. There are things like "zinc finger proteins" and others that look extremely promising. And as my fellow blogger Loreen Willenberg discussed in her recent post, research into therapeutic vaccines is ongoing, and she's doing her part to move it along. I think that with so many different irons in the fire, we'll see something break in the not-too-distant future. That's my hope and my dream anyway. @ Seth L. in SF: Thanks so much for your kind words about my blog. One of the things I've realized in my brief time as a blogger is that none of us is completely alone in what we experience with this disease. There's always someone else out there in the same position. You probably didn't really need that "sliver of a push" you say I gave you, because it sounds like you were ready to start meds. Only you can know when it's right for you. You decided on your own. Maybe my post illustrated that sometimes just getting the decision behind you can be a relief. Thanks again for reading.
Comment by: chrlthurm
(Phx, AZ)
Wed., Mar. 24, 2010 at 4:33 pm EDT Right on John! I started meds a yr ago after being poz for 5 yrs. My viral load is now undectable and my T-Cells are near 700 so your on the right track.
Comment by: Seth L.
(San Francisco, CA)
Wed., Mar. 24, 2010 at 1:22 pm EDT Hello John! I not only liked, but related to your last blog. I too made a jump into the med game because of indecision. It was hard, but I did it! I wanted you to know that you had a part in my making that jump. I think I was ready, but I wanted some other kind of comfirmation or sign other then my Nurses and Doctors telling me what they felt I should do. I wanted a sign from someone in the same boat as me. I thank you for helping me with that little sliver of a push to get me more comfortable with my decision. You may feel like you did nothing, but your courage helped me courage regardless!
Comment by: Eddie
(Houston, Tx)
Tue., Mar. 23, 2010 at 11:17 pm EDT I strongly believe that after reading most of the facts in regards to treatment, you made the right decision. Studies have shown that even if your VL is low and your cd4 count is also low, you run the risk of developing Opportunistic infections even when you start treatment. for example; at 200 or 250 cd4, the VL will become undetectable in most cases after starting treatment, but you may not gain your Cd4 back for some reason, and thus still be on the "border line" of catching an OI. So it is in people's best interest to preserve that at a higher level. That's why you read the new guidelines. IT is complicated,I know, but I can assure you and others one thing: Every day the information gets better regardless of treatments,let alone clinical trials on therapetical vaccines or new drugs with much less side effects than Ral(insentres), Sustiva, or Atripla. I am not a doctor by any means, but I devour books -so do speak- and websites to learn not only about HIv, but other diseases or co-infections related to the disease. I must say that you were fearful, I think, and somewhat unsure of the outcomes of such drugs.The fact is that in your professional career you may be able to know what your opponent is thinking and how to confront him, but this time you have a different clever, witty,silent and very unpredictable foe you may not know a whole lot about,and that all it wants is to tilt the scale to its favor and make you fail in all aspects.There is a new drug by GSK-1349572 that brigs the virus to Undetectable levels in 10 days!! and who can't forget the upcoming Rilpivirine. Stay tune.
Comment by: fogcityjohn
(San Francisco, CA)
Fri., Mar. 19, 2010 at 12:26 am EDT @ Mark in NYC: You're absolutely right. I'm a bit behind the times. I think the new guidelines were issued in December, so my post is a bit out of date. (Do realize, though, that there's some lag time between when my posts are written and when they're published here.) @ Ben in NYC: I hear those sustiva-induced dreams can be a lot to handle. Hope that yours are at least pleasant. @ Rodger in Toronto: Remember that only a minority of poz folks get lipo. The drugs these days are said to be much less likely to cause it. My lipo had nothing to do with drugs. As for Jay Levy's opinion, I am sure it is far more nuanced and complex than what I have written here. But I am just a layman, and so I'm probably incapable of fully understanding and articulating his views. I don't claim to speak for him.
Comment by: Billy
(Hickory NC)
Fri., Mar. 19, 2010 at 12:15 am EDT I could have written this about myself. I stayed stable for 15 years before my CD4 dropped to 350 and I have never had a VL higher than 2000. I tried the Atripla and it was not for me, but the Insentress + Truvada is wonderful. It really has been a tremendous relief to take controll of my life again.
Comment by: Rodger
(Toronto)
Thu., Mar. 18, 2010 at 8:57 pm EDT I think it's less about a wrong decision than indeed about the peril of indecision. My fears were more in the opposite direction -- that starting too LATE could be an irreversible mistake. In the end, my numbers made the decision before, after only 3 years as poz. My CD4s slowly dipped from 467 to 400 recently (they've never been above 500 for me) while I began to accept the idea that the time for treatment was approaching, in particular after consulting with some very experienced treatment advocates. Then all of a sudden in a single month they nosedived from 400 to 250 -- throwing me into total panic. Now, just over a month after starting meds, my CD4 are climbing and my VL has gone from 50K to almost undetectable already. I'm still afraid -- afraid of lipo, afraid of the unknown future, just plain afraid some days. But most days I'm feeling pretty good. BTW, the advice your associate Dr Levy gives is the exact opposite of that increasingly given by the docs right here on The Body. Who knows who will prove right, really! I'm glad you're feeling good at this point about your treatment decision.
Comment by: Ben
(New York, NY)
Thu., Mar. 18, 2010 at 8:52 pm EDT Hi John, My numbers were very similar to yours and I decided to start treatment two days ago. I also had a lot of hesitation and indecision, but in the end the same rationale you mentioned of "better safe than sorry" prevailed. I'm glad to see that I'm not alone in facing these difficult decisions. I started on Atripla, the vivid dreams are actually a hoot, just hope they simmer down soon. -Ben
Comment by: Mark
(NYC)
Thu., Mar. 18, 2010 at 7:22 pm EDT 'I know that the current guidelines call for beginning antiretroviral medication when one's CD4 count drops below 350.' That's not quite correct. The current guidelines say: 'Antiretroviral therapy should be initiated in all patients with a history of an AIDS-defining illness or with a CD4 count below 350. Antiretroviral therapy is recommended for patients with CD4 counts between 350 and 500.' The Panel was split, but the published guidelines still recommend therapy for anyone below 500.
Comment by: Raheem
(Toronto)
Thu., Mar. 18, 2010 at 2:15 pm EDT John, I think you might suffer from anxiety naturally, an HIV is indeed a scary disease. Good willing you will have many sunny days and hopefully a cure too.
Comment by: fogcityjohn
(San Francisco, CA)
Wed., Mar. 17, 2010 at 10:03 pm EDT @ Peter in Copenhagen: I think I made the right decision, and I am hopeful that the treatment is working. I'll find out next week when I get my first lab results back. And yes, I now realize that the guidelines have changed recently, so I think we'll be seeing people starting on meds a lot earlier.
Comment by: Peter
(Copenhagen, Denmark)
Wed., Mar. 17, 2010 at 2:01 pm EDT Hi John, You have made the right decision - not because some doctor told you to, but because you were ready. You will be surprised to learn just how effective the treatment is and how immediate the improvement in your numbers are. In the coming years you will also become more relaxed about your measurements. The main thing is how you feel - not whether your cd4-count fluctuates a bit, which it is bound to. I wish well. Best, Peter - poz for 25 years, on treatment for 10 years. Feeling GREAT. By the way: the new US-guidelines recommend starting treatment when your cd4 count falls below 500. Your decision is thus also in line with current recommendations. http://aids-clinical-care.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/2009/1207/1
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