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CDC says HAART is to blaim
#42364 - 12/12/02 11:50 PM
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From 1992 through 2000, we observed a total of 7188 deaths, 4870 (68%) during the pre-HAART period, and 2318 (32%) during the HAART period.
Compared with the pre-HAART period, proportions of deaths with the following conditions Deaths from Non-AIDS-Related Diseases Have Increased as a Proportion of Deaths of HIV-Infected Persons since the Advent of HAART Atlanta, GA Results: From 1992 through 2000, we observed a total of 7188 deaths, 4870 (68%) during the pre-HAART period, and 2318 (32%) during the HAART period. Compared with the pre-HAART period, proportions of deaths with the following conditions increased for liver disease (odds ratio [OR] 1.7; 95% CI 1.4-2.1), non-Hodgkins lymphoma (OR 1.5; CI 1.2-2.0), cachexia/wasting (OR 1.3; CI 1.1-1.6), kidney disease (OR 1.3; CI 1.1-1.5), and sepsis (OR 1.2; CI 1.1-1.4). Although not reaching statistical significance, the trend for ischemic heart disease (OR 1.9; CI 0.99-3.62) was suggestive of an increase in proportion of deaths.
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there is a lot more to that than you posted, why dont you post the whole article instead of just bits and pieces? Or is it just a way to post more misinformation by twisting the whole article by chopping it up to say what you want it to?
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Please tell me what else it said that changed the message. How about providing us all with a link to it.
You folks try anything to hide the truth.
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A damning and horrifying accounts of how the US Food and Drug Administration acts in anything but good faith or the public interest. A blistering seven-page expose that points a finger at AIDS activist efforts to speed up the approval process.
"Once a wary watchdog, the Food and Drug Administration set out to become a 'partner' of the pharmaceutical industry. Today, the public has more remedies, but some are proving lethal."
By DAVID WILLMAN, Times Staff Writer
WASHINGTON--For most of its history, the United Food and Drug Administration approved new prescription medicines at a grudging pace, daily homage to the physician's creed, "First, do no harm." Then in the early 1990s, the demand for AIDS drugs changed the political climate. Congress told the FDA to work closely with pharmaceutical firms in getting new medicines to market more swiftly. President Clinton urged FDA leaders to trust industry as "partners, not adversaries..."
Choice headlines:
"Drug After Drug, Warnings Ignored...danger signs present...even so, top admistrators moved ahead often leaving doctors to assume the risks."
"Warning on Label Omits Deaths...heart problems were mentioned in fine print, not in key dosage data"
"143 Sudden Deaths Did Not Stop Approval...study results kept secret"
"Official Foresaw Deadly Effects..remedy pulled after of death and surgeries"
Find the whole article at
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/reports/fda/
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Yes, the drug co.s arent perfect. They persue profit. The drugs aren't perfect, either. Lots of side effects, especially in the older ones. Dying from aids isn't perfect, either. Its so telling the way the "anti drug co. dissidents" always BEG for the meds once they start dying of aids. And when they get them and get better, you never hear from them again. Probably because they don't want to admit their cause was wrong, and they don't want to admit they were fools for not taking the meds sooner.
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Once again you tell such a little part of the story. Why can you now get a mortgage if you have HIV? Why can you now get a transplant, infertility treatments etc. Because for most of the people with HIV the medications have extended their lives--and hopefully will have a normal life expectancy. Before 1996 NO ONE with HIV could get a mortgage, transplant or infertility treatments because they were considered to be doomed.' Yes, there are side effects to the medications, but for the vast majority of people with HIV they are not in dire shape, they are living full lives. And they are not contemplating death. This is an absolute transformation of previous years (before the medications) when HIV was a death sentence! So you can bring as many quotes from wherever you want, but you don't have the big picture. And you don't allow that people may differ with you. You are obsessed with one idea, and unfortunately, it's false. One day,hopefully, you'll figure that out.
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Try not taking HAART and see what fun complications arise...cmv retinitis, toxoplosmosis, PCP, lymphoma, KS, meningitis, crypto, thrush, plus a host of other horrible opportunistic infections. I've witnessed it and it's not a pretty picture...and 97% of people with HIV will get one, if not much more of these complications if they do not take medications once their CD4 count has fallen below 200 and their viral load is raging. Yeah right now HAART is to blame for the few deaths that occur...but remember there was massive dying before these medications. HIV was nearly inevitably fatal and is still in the developing world. This is still such a small proportion of the people living with HIV.
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"dissidents" always BEG for the meds once they start dying of aids".
Provide one reference to back up this silly, silly, silly statement. Your only answer may be that as without 'meds' no dissident has 'ever been dying of AIDS' so who know what they would do.
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Lots of ex-"dissidents" or I would call them "denialists" cause all they are doing is denying something that most knowledeable people know is ture. Anyway many are dead or currently on medications: OF course the new recruits are fine...but if they are positive it takes 10 years to have a symptom, something they ignore and just claim that they are fine...their ignorance is alarming.
http://www.sfbg.com/News/34/17/hiv.html
Bad science
They once thought HIV was harmless. Now, they say, AIDS has forced them to reconsider.
By Bruce Mirken
FOR YEARS SAN Franciscans have heard from a small but vocal group of activists who claim that HIV is harmless. AIDS, these dissenters say, is caused not by a virus but by "lifestyle factors" chiefly recreational and medical drug use. The medical establishment, they say, is either misguided or murderous for advocating the use of toxic anti-HIV drugs.
The "AIDS dissident" movement has been around for well over a decade. For the most part, it has remained on the fringe, wearing the disdain of mainstream scientists and AIDS activists as a badge of pride.
But in the last year, the movement has been challenged from within by former believers who, in keeping with dissident orthodoxy, had scorned and avoided recently developed AIDS therapies.
Now some of them have themselves gotten sick with AIDS. They say their belief that HIV couldn't hurt them put their lives and the lives of their lovers at risk. One even goes so far as to compare his former movement to a cult.
Medical mistake
Ever since HIV was identified as the cause of AIDS in the mid '80s, some have cast doubt on the connection. Early HIV skeptics included pioneering New York AIDS activist Michael Callen and his doctor, Joseph Sonnabend. In the late 1980s, Prof. Peter Duesberg, a prominent UC Berkeley virologist, began arguing that HIV could not cause AIDS.
Although such theories have been consistently rejected by mainstream science, they have nevertheless spawned an energetic movement that has been highly visible in the Bay Area. Members of ACT UP San Francisco a renegade group that long ago split from the rest of the AIDS activist movement, including ACT UP Golden Gate plaster the Castro with stickers bearing slogans like "Don't Buy the HIV Lie." And last spring, an L.A.-based group called Alive and Well ran a series of full-page ads in Bay Area papers, including the Bay Guardian. The ads called AIDS "not a sexually transmitted epidemic but a tragic medical mistake" and argued that rather than HIV, "well-known non-contagious factors are what make people sick."
Until last January, Sean Current was an ardent member of the dissident movement. In the early 1990s, as a staffer at a Massachusetts group for HIV-positive people, he brought Duesberg to speak at a meeting. Later he traveled around the country speaking at meetings of Health Education AIDS Liaison (HEAL), a network of HIV skeptics. He introduced himself as "someone who was HIV-positive for a long time and had never been sick" despite shunning anti-HIV drugs living proof that HIV was harmless.
"I accepted completely as truth that the dissidents were right and that we had been misled," Current, who now lives in San Diego, recalls. Because he had used recreational drugs only rarely and in the distant past and never took anti-retrovirals except for a five-week stint on AZT in 1990, Current believed he was not at risk for AIDS. And because he believed that HIV was harmless, he was certain that he and his lover Sebastien, who was HIV-negative when they met, did not need to always practice safe sex.
About two years ago, Current developed a Kaposi's sarcoma lesion and began experiencing fungal infections and other problems commonly seen in AIDS patients. His belief in dissident theories kept him from seeing what was happening.
"I knew what a K.S. lesion was," he says, "but where I was coming from I couldn't believe that's what it was."
The turning point came when Current had trouble breathing and was diagnosed as having K.S. in his lungs. He turned to other dissidents for advice and, receiving nothing he considered an adequate answer, sought conventional treatment. In October he began highly active anti-retroviral therapy (HAART) taking a combination of drugs to attack his HIV.
"After two weeks of HAART and the chemo, my lesions had all flattened out and I could breathe again," Current says. "I feel much, much better. Within the first month my energy level increased."
Now Sebastien has begun to suffer some of the same symptoms Current experienced. Current says his lover never used drugs and has none of the behavioral risk factors the dissidents claim cause AIDS but they did at times have unprotected sex.
"I brought Peter Duesberg into my home, my town, to speak," Current says with obvious pain. "I had just met Sebastien and I introduced him to Peter, and over a few months Sebastien became a believer. I have to live with that."
Reasonable doubt
One of the people Current met while speaking at HEAL meetings was Egan, a Seattle 28- year-old who asked that his last name not be used for family reasons. Egan, who tested positive for HIV in March 1996, says he quickly became an "ultra-dissident" after attending a HEAL meeting that fall.
But the next year, after two HEAL members died, Egan began to have doubts. When Current got sick and yet another HEAL member he knew died, those doubts accelerated.
"This was the third person in a year that had died in a small dissident circle," Egan says. "Being gay, I know a lot of people with HIV and AIDS. I had never personally known anybody outside of the HEAL or dissident groups who had died." He began to suspect that what dissidents scorn as "the orthodoxy" had a better handle on what was happening to his friends than the dissidents did.
In 1998 Egan began experiencing his own health problems, including the same kind of fungal infections Current suffered. His CD4 count a measure of the strength of the immune system that orthodox HIV medicine considers crucial had plunged below 200, officially qualifying him for an AIDS diagnosis. He, too, went on a three-drug HAART cocktail.
"Within five weeks I noticed a dramatic change for the better in my health and energy, and my blood work reflected this," Egan says. "I bet the dissidents could find some way to explain this they always do but to me it made perfect sense: the meds were helping me get better, at least for the short term."
Closed minds
When they began discussing their experiences with fellow dissidents, Current and Egan say, they were often met with hostility and scorn especially when they suggested HIV might be playing some role in their illness. When Current began circulating e-mails asking for ideas, Alex Russell, assistant editor of the British dissident journal Continuum, advised him that "you are not 'HIV positive,' nor is your partner; nor is anyone worldwide. Give up your 'HIV' status-identity and get a life."
After a number of what he considered unproductive exchanges with prominent dissidents, Current penned a furious description of the movement's reaction to the "inconvenience" of people such as himself: "a) Debunk the guy's credibility. b) Find several arbitrary factors that may perhaps be present in his life to attribute this decline in health to. c) Chastise him for not following a more wholesome lifestyle (any dissidents out there want to order a pizza?) d) Harangue him for any medical choices he might make that counter the party line. e) Then claim they don't have all the answers and that the dissidents are not missionaries."
Very few dissidents, Current says, have actually tried to engage him in a meaningful dialogue about his experiences. Similarly, when Egan started raising questions in HEAL Seattle, "it wasn't a hostile environment by any means, but it certainly didn't seem like a lot of the dissident information was up for examination either." Leaders tended to scoff, he recalls, while some rank-and-file members "were more open to differing opinions, which I thought was the whole purpose of the dissident movement."
Christine Maggiore is the director of Alive and Well, the dissident group that placed the San Francisco ads. She vehemently disputes the notion that the dissident movement or at least her branch of it is dogmatic and closed- minded. "The ads were not a decree, but rather a call for consideration of alternative perspectives on HIV and AIDS," she told us. "The information was presented as a point of departure for examination and dialogue."
Maggiore describes herself as having been HIV-positive and healthy without medication for a decade much like Current a few years ago. She says her views are "always open to discussion." But Current's experiences have not altered her rejection of most HIV science, including the standard HIV antibody test. "Sean's experience of illness does not convince me that registering positive on a nonspecific test for proteins that may be associated with past exposure to a retrovirus with no cell-killing mechanisms is the reason he now has Kaposi's sarcoma," she says.
Her group, Maggiore insists, "is about the right to self-determination in health matters. It's not a belief system that a person adopts as a matter of faith when they feel well."
But when another former dissident compared the movement to a cult, Maggiore blasted him with the kind of personal attack Current criticizes.
In an interview with me for a recent article that appeared online, North Bay business owner Bill McCormick (who asked to be given a pseudonym because his straight clients don't know he is HIV-positive) said he ignored his gradually worsening health until he was hospitalized with Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia. Even then, he said, he resisted treatment because of his dissident beliefs.
McCormick said he "was in complete denial, as you are when you're in a cult," and compared the experience to that of being a Scientologist, which he was years before. His health, too, has improved dramatically since he began anti-HIV treatment.
Maggiore responded with a letter blasting McCormick as "an ill and cranky ex- Scientologist, ... a troubled ex-straight guy who thought he found salvation in our literature, who desperately sought any scheme or treatment he believed might undo his positive diagnosis, who suffered with constant infections brought on by unprotected sex, who ignored his mounting health problems."
McCormick, who has had a number of hostile responses from the dissident camp, says simply, "I don't care. I've checked out. Let 'em do what they want to do. I find it amusing." (See below)
Neither Egan nor Current is willing to go quite as far as McCormick. Both now consider themselves on the fence as far as the role of HIV in AIDS, and both say that at times they've seen too much rigidity in both camps. They also worry about the long-term toxicities of the drugs they now take.
"There are days when I feel I don't know if all that has happened to me is related to HIV, and there are days when it's the only thing that makes sense," Current muses. "I don't have a loyalty to either side. What I'm doing with standard treatments seems to be working."
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What these people who are against HAART don't realize is that outside of the USA and other industrualized countries, patients will do ANYTHING to get medications. Read this sad, sad story!
Patient assistance in Guatemala and Latin America:
Bancomed holds its first antiretroviral lottery By Dr. Matt Anderson
On June 29th at 6:30 PM we held our first antiretroviral lottery outside of the Luis Angel Garcia Clinic. Ninety patients had been given numbers in the lottery; fifty from the San Juan de Dios Hospital and forty from Roosevelt Hospital. We had enough medicine only to provide four patients with treatment for a year. By 7 PM eight numbers had been picked from a bingo tumbler - four winners and four alternates.
Several months of planning had gone into the lottery. The decisions were made by the two main patient groups: Gente Positiva and Gente Nueva: Who should be allowed to participate in the lottery? How should the numbers be chosen? How long should winners be guaranteed treatment? Should we charge for medicines? How could we make sure people did not sell their medicines? Should a particular group (like parents) be given special consideration? These were among the difficult questions we grappled with.
In the end the lottery was open to all symptomatic patients, those already started on antiretroviral cocktails and those with a CD4 less than 350. Patients were given numbers in their clinic which only they and the clinic knew. The lottery organizers just picked the winning numbers. We agreed to supply medicines for one year. As per our new policy we will request a Q100 (about $15) per month donation for the medicines, but no one will be denied the drugs if they cannot pay.
It was a very bittersweet moment. The clinic staff had been particularly concerned about a widow who had seven children to support. Surely, it was argued, she deserved medicines and should get them without the lottery. Amazingly, when the first number was called, she broke into tears of joy. She had won.
On the other hand, most patients went away disappointed. A photographer in his 50's who is gradually losing his sight to cytomegalovirus, left the lottery as soon as he knew he had lost. There was great bitterness in his face.
Clearly, the amount of antiretrovirals we have available is vastly inadequate for the number of patients. The lottery did serve to illustrate this in a very public way. It was covered in the local Guatemalan press and Newsweek's International Edition.
Formation of a Medicine Bank
The lottery was the first formal initiative of Bancomed, a committee formed of Gente Positiva, Gente Nueva, the Marco Antonio Foundation and Solidaridad. Our goal is to have Bancomed handle all donated medicines.
The committee has decided to request a donation from patients for the medicines we provide. This donation is pegged at 20% of the cost of the medicines and all monies will go to the two AIDS clinics (at Hospital Roosevelt and San Juan de Dios). The vast majority of clinic patients will not be able to make any donation and they will not be denied medicines. However, the committee felt that some patients could make a small donation and that we should use this money to finance the activities of the clinics.
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Pretty interesting that 8 years after this issue was first raised and shot down on this board, the facts have proved the truth. HARRT will keep you alive and kill you all at the same time........
Less people are now dying from AIDS related causes, but there is a horrifying increase in deaths from liver and heart issues from people taking long term HARRT. HAND is decreasing the quality of life for long term surviviors.
HIV yeah such a chronically manageable disease......what a load of bullshit. It will buy you time, but when does the price become more than it's worth.....it's a question you can't run from.
I get so pissed with this idea that HIV is nothing these days and all one has to do is pop a few pills....those pills are a deadly as HIV itself and you fools don't seem to understand this.
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