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brent4861
Regular

Reged: 10/18/01
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL. ~ USA
Chronic Tonsil Cheese
      #88535 - 02/16/04 07:25 PM

Tonsil cheese? What is he talking about? well let me tell you...
Horrible feelings of dry phlegm at back of throat mixed with levels of bad taste when it accumulates.

I know deal with it right? But by me bringing it to light here, I will maybe help someone out there cope with it if it happens to them, who doesn't maybe have the support I am blessed with.
It started with the flu outbreak earlier this year.

I had just been vaccinated with the flu shot when my mate returned from ground zero of flu area namely, Denver, where he was skiing. I came down with his flu and it could of been worse with out the shot but who can tell.

I suffered through it but in the end I needed antibiotics otherwise I was in fear of getting pnuemonia for the second time.
I was at that time experiencing Tonsil cheese and I have always had very large tonsils. This icky stuff accumulates in the spongey hole-like areas of the tonsils and can taste bad.

Well i got over it, that was Christmas time and now it is right after Valentines day and I started tasting this vague taste again but not as strong and not the exact flavor. I went to gargle cause it also felt like that just woke up mouth feeling.

I looked in the mirror to my horror to see this white stuff in the, what is called, Crypts, or holes in the tonsils.
The thing is my throat isn't sore and I was surprised.
I went online to google.com to search and found out that kids get this and people with AIDS.
This isn't able to be affected by antibiotic at all times cause it hides or something like that.
I called my Doctor (Daniel Berger MD of Northstar Medical in Chicago) and he referred me to a specialist of ear nose and throat at Mesonic called Dr. Freidman.
I think i need my tonsils out which is the solution if this is chronic. The scientific name for this cheese condition is tonsillolithiasis.

I hadn't heard about it until my condition happened so now that the cat is out of the bag maybe others can talk about it here about how they coped and followed through with getting help.

I will let you all know how my dr visit goes on march 17 2004

thanks for reading

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Moffie
All Star

Reged: 02/14/04
Posts: 85
Loc: Arizona
Re: Chronic Tonsil Cheese new
      #88960 - 02/17/04 05:03 AM

Never heard of it,,,,,,,,, Thanks for the well worded description.


--------------------
Yours;
Tim
"Living Positive Since '83"

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BabyPeanut
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Reged: 09/25/02
Posts: 55
Re: Chronic Tonsil Cheese new
      #88968 - 02/17/04 09:13 AM

Two facts:

1) Most of your CMI is around your gut.

Blood cells responsible for Cell Mediated Immunity (CMI) exist largely in lymph nodes. Most of the lymph nodes in your body are Gut Assocated Lymph Tissue (GALT). I assume that the reason for this is that the food you push through your gut carries a high every-day infection risk so you better position your defenses where the infections are happening the most often.

2) Activated CD4 T-cells are the breeding ground for HIV.

Resting CD4 T-cells are only latently infected with HIV.

Below is an abstract in << quotes >>

<< Early establishment of a pool of latently infected, resting CD4(+) T cells during primary HIV-1 infection.

Chun TW, Engel D, Berrey MM, Shea T, Corey L, Fauci AS.

Laboratory of Immunoregulation, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD 20892, USA. twchun@nih.gov

The presence of latently infected, resting CD4(+) T cells carrying replication-competent HIV-1 has been demonstrated in chronically infected individuals who are antiretroviral therapy naive as well as in those who are receiving highly active antiretroviral therapy (HAART). [...snip...] >>

Put 1 and 2 together and the big picture is that the gut is the main source of HIV due to a constant onslaught of infection from even very minor food poisoning, the kind a person without an HIV infect just repells without even noticing due to their CMI. The HIV infected person's CMI being activated by a constant source of infection like persistant Candidiasis right up against the GALT is where most of the latently infected, resting CD4(+) T cells go active and release HIV.

Anything that stops persistant Candidiasis or other peristant infection of the gut will most likely reduce HIV viral load too.

Cut-n-paste this web address for a report on this by a doctor:

http://hermes.tubas.net/HIV/hiv-gut-poles_v5n3.pdf


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BabyPeanut
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Reged: 09/25/02
Posts: 55
Re: Chronic Tonsil Cheese new
      #88969 - 02/17/04 09:17 AM

The contents of this message has been lifted from http://www.integrativehealthconsulting.com/educate/0104transcript/two.html


Transcript from Recent Lecture on HIV Treatment - Portland, Oregon - 4/01
Back to: Beginning

Okay. So let's talk about intestinal health.

Now, why is intestinal health so important and so much a factor when we're talking about the immune system? Well, the first point is that two-thirds of all of your T cells live in close proximity to your GI tract. Two-thirds. Now, the reason two-thirds of your white blood cells live in close proximity to your GI tract is because the interior of your GI tract contains ten billion bacteria. And that's very close to your bloodstream. And so, occasionally things will leak into the blood. And it's very important for the lymph nodes and the white blood cells and the T cells to be able to monitor what's going on in the GI tract very closely. Because if there is a break in the defenses and it does get into the bloodstream, that break needs to be addressed and patched up.

Now, those ten billion bacteria are actually supposed to be your friends. They are there for a reason. They are there to help you digest your food, to help turn the food into vitamins and nutrients, to help keep away infections and unhealthy organisms. But occasionally, or sometimes more than occasionally, those bacteria change.

Now, what makes them change from your friends to your enemies? We all know what it feels like if those bacteria become angry at you. It's very unpleasant. So what are some of the things that can cause that change to happen, to go from healthy, beneficial bacteria that are supposed to be there symbiotically supporting your health, to unhealthy, unfriendly, pathogenic bacteria that put a tremendous stress on your immune system.

Well, your diet is one factor. The amount of stress in your life is another factor. And the kinds of drugs or supplements you put in your mouth and in your body are a third factor.

Now, some of the things that can happen if the bacteria change from healthy to unhealthy, you can stop absorbing your food. And so your body becomes malnourished because you're not getting the nutrients that it's used to getting, that it needs to get, to keep the immune system strong.

Your drugs can just run through you and not be absorbed. And if the drugs do not get to the right blood levels, then they won't work, and the virus will have a much easier time developing resistance. And that is the last thing that you want if you're taking antiviral drugs, is to be taking them and have them not be working, and have them wear out too soon.

Not only might your body not be absorbing the drugs, but there might be good drugs out there that you try and take, but because your gut is weak and unhealthy, you come back to your doctor and you say, you know, I can't take this drug. I have terrible nausea, I have terrible diarrhea, and I'm not going to take it.

Well, instead of throwing that drug away and, as a physician, writing intolerant to virus on the chart and never trying it again, instead, if we go to the root of the problem and raise the health of your intestinal system and your digestion to a higher level, lo and behold, people can tolerate the drug again and not have any problem. So it's very important to not start losing effective treatments due to an unhealthy GI tract.

Finally, this is probably the most important reason. If two-thirds of your white blood cells are living in proximity to your digestive system, and your digestive system is chronically inflamed -- and a lot of people have chronically inflamed digestive symptoms and don't even really know that that situation is going on.

Why? Because a little bit of diarrhea and some bloating and some gas and some heartburn, some people look at that as a normal state. And it's not. And if you're on Prilosec, or if you're on Zantac, or if you're on Tagamet, something is wrong, and you're just taking a drug to mask the symptoms and get by. But why do you need that drug? What's going on? Why do you need Imodium? Why do you need Lomotil?

You need to go deeper to the cause of the problem, not just past the symptoms. Because if you have a chronically inflamed digestive system -- remember what we talked about with herpes? If your immune system is activated and stressed by an infection, it's going to have less resources to fight the HIV infection. So if your immune system is stressed by what's going on in your gut, which is a 30-foot long tube of bacteria, then you're going to have less resources and a weaker immune system to keep HIV completely suppressed.

Now I'm going to show you a few pictures, and then we'll take pictures on digestive health.

This is a really nice artist's representation of a healthy gut, an intestinal wall on the left, and an unhealthy intestinal wall on the right. And you look up here, and you'll see that there's this architecture to a healthy intestinal wall. It basically looks like Manhattan Island with lots of skyscrapers. And the reason, if you think of every window, skyscraper, as being able to absorb nutrients, if you just had a flat surface of one-story buildings, you don't have as many windows as when you have all these 30-story skyscrapers. And that's exactly what they do. They provide increased surface area to absorb nutrients.

In an unhealthy gut, it looks like a bomb exploded on Manhattan Island. The buildings have been leveled, and you don't have that surface area to absorb nutrients. And when you don't have that healthy architecture, the food just slides right through. And we all know what that can be like. Now, all these little yellow and blue marks are healthy bacteria that form a buffer layer on the intestinal wall and help digest your food. And they are little vitamin factories. They make B-12, they make vitamin K, they make all sorts of healthy nutrients that take care of the cells of your gut. They are caretakers. They are symbiotic organisms.

When you take Bactrim every day, or when you take antibiotics for bronchitis and antibiotics for sinusitis and all sorts of medications, these bacteria, they change. A lot of them get killed off. And a lot of unhealthy organisms, especially yeast organisms like candida, start growing. And in some of the tests that I do in my clinic, we culture for candida. And a lot of times the whole gut is covered with candida. Now, candida is what is called thrush. When it's on your tongue, we treat it. When it's throughout your gut, for some reason we don't think it's a problem. But I will tell you that getting rid of candida is oftentimes the thing that's necessary to get the gut functioning healthfully again and get rid of the gas and the bloating and the fatigue that comes with this kind of situation.

Now, acidophilus is a healthy bacteria. It's on my supplement list. We'll talk about it. Bifidus is a healthy bacteria. If you're taking an acidophilus/ bifidus combination every day, twice a day if possible, you help to recolonize and keep healthy the intestinal bacteria. And that helps to keep these organisms from gaining a foothold. And you really want to support the gut with the -- it's called probiotic bacteria, with a healthy diet, lots of fruits and vegetables and whole grains.

Protein is very important. We'll talk about that specifically in a minute. And also, not taking antibiotics if you don't absolutely need them, and just keeping your whole immune system strong so you don't have to keep going to the doctor and taking round and round of antibiotics.

The last organism that it's important to look for once a year are intestinal parasites. Now, there's a different test for parasites than there is for candida. So you specifically have to have your physician check at least once a year for intestinal parasites. It usually requires three collections once a day for three days. Any lab can do it. And if they do pick up amoebas -- they go by very fancy names. There's Endolimax nana, Blastocystis hominis, Iodamoeba butschlii. There's all sorts of these fancy names. Any amoeba, any parasites in your gut should not be there. And in my book I have a whole section on how parasites are contracted and what sort of treatments are good to help eradicate them and help keep them away.

So as you can see from what I'm saying, I already spend far more time looking into the health of your digestive system and your intestinal health than most physicians. But I will tell you, if we go back to this list of cofactors, a key point here is that many people have more than just one of these cofactors going on. And they are cumulative. They potentiate each other. If you have intestinal parasites, unhealthy intestinal environment, low protein intake, and don't take antioxidant vitamin supplements, you're really a disaster waiting to happen. Your antiviral drugs will wear out much sooner than if you address these cofactors and clear them up and shore up your system and support it naturally.

QUESTION: How do you treat candida?

DR. KAISER: The first thing about treating candida is to make sure that that's what's causing your symptoms. So a lot of people come to my office and say, I think I have candida. And it turns out they have parasites. And it's a completely different treatment program. So if you do get a stool culture and it shows an overgrowth of candida, the lab that I use tells me what drugs it's sensitive to. And I usually give the person at least five to seven days of a medication to clear the deck. I talk to them about decreasing the amount of sugar in their diet because candida feeds off of sugar. I usually use an herb called uva ursi. Uva ursi is a natural herbal anticandida medicine. And it's a combination of diet, supplements, stress reduction. Exercise can help. But using the medication right off the bat to lower the amount of candida present is almost essential. And sometimes within three days you can feel dramatically different.

QUESTION: Do you consider HPV virus one of these as well?

DR. KAISER: HPV virus, to my knowledge, is not a primary infection of the gut. It's usually a sexually transmitted infection.

QUESTION: Gotcha. Because I have been treated for that for years. It goes along with the rest of it as well. I have to take my medicine. And I have the last four years had to take drugs to keep from getting diarrhea.

DR. KAISER: What drugs are you taking to treat HPV? (Question about HPV.)

DR. KAISER: The way to keep HPV to a low level -- HPV stands for human papilloma virus. It's a virus that can occur on the cervix or the anus, the rectum, and it can predispose a person to cancer. You need to have your immune system get stronger because your immune system is what's going to keep it in check. And oftentimes, I mean, just an example, if you weren't on antiviral medication and your immune system was being stressed by a high HIV viral load, going on antiviral medication and getting HIV completely suppressed and out of the picture would shore up and strengthen your immune system tremendously.

(Question about treatment regimen.)

DR. KAISER: So we'll talk more about this later. But for someone in your situation where the drugs aren't working really well, you have a lot of resistance, you're pretty much staying on medication and hoping to stay healthy while you await new treatments. Well, following a program of eliminating cofactors is essential to help you get from where you are right now to that next place and to keep you healthy.

QUESTION: That would include the HPV.

DR. KAISER: Right.

(Question about probiotics.)

R. KAISER: Probiotics such as acidophilus and bifidus bacteria, there's controversy. But if you take them on an empty stomach, they will work better than if you take them on a full stomach. I recommend taking them right at the very beginning of a meal. Right before you start eating the meal. And that way, the acid of the stomach gets neutralized by the first few bites of food. And then they get out of the stomach very quickly, which is what you want to happen. You want them to pass through the stomach as quickly as possible. So either in between meals or right at the beginning of the meal.

QUESTION: What's your recommendation on how to shop for effective acidophilus?

DR. KAISER: Okay. I should have actually planted this question, which is how do you get the most effective recolonization of your gut. You know, there are a lot of acidophilus products. The better ones are in the refrigerated section because they are at their highest potency if they are kept refrigerated. But the best way to recolonize your gut -- and I won't take too much time, but I will tell you -- is to make your own yogurt in your kitchen. Because if you make your own yogurt in your kitchen and you put it in the refrigerator right after it finishes incubating for an hour or two, and then you eat it over the next few days, the culture is at its peak of vitality and health.

And the yogurt that you get in the store is already three days old by the time you start eating it. And there's a huge difference. It probably decreases about 50 percent in potency within the first two to three days. And my patients come back after I give them this whole speech. And they tell me that there's a noticeable change in how their digestive system functions from when they were taking tons of capsules of acidophilus and it wasn't making a dent. So that's really the best way to improve that bacterial layer in the gut.

(Question about intestinal flora.)

DR. KAISER: Good question. No. The medications that are used to suppress herpes, the Zovirax, the acyclovir, and the Valtrex, do not effect the bacteria of the body. Nor does an antifungal medication like ketoconazole, like Diflucan. Doesn't affect the bacteria. But Bactrim, Septra, any of the antibiotics, Augmentin, they really devastate it. And you have to really play catch-up, after you finish a course of those, to rebuild it.

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Chronic Tonsil Cheese new
      #89170 - 02/17/04 11:01 PM

Gargle every night with listerine, head tilted back opening back of throat to get back of tonsils, 30 sec, minimum. Do this for 2 weeks religiously every night, and see if condition resolves on its own.

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brent4861
Regular

Reged: 10/18/01
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL. ~ USA
Re: Chronic Tonsil Cheese new
      #89209 - 02/18/04 05:25 PM

tonsillolithiasis is not the same as candidiasis


candidiasis 
kan-di-dUc^-sis

infection with, or disease caused by, Candida, especially C. albicans. This disease usually results from debilitation (as in immunosuppression and especially AIDS), physiologic change, prolonged administration of antibiotics, and barrier breakage. Syn: moniliasis, candidosis.


tonsillolithiasis affects the palatine tonsil part of the throat only.

palatine tonsil 

a large, oval mass of lymphoid tissue embedded in the lateral wall of the oropharynx on either side between the pillars of the fauces. Syn: faucial tonsil, tonsilla [TA], tonsil (2), tonsilla palatina [TA].
---------------------------------------------
P.S.
I remember my only bought of Thrush was while I was in the Hospital recovering from PCP pnuemonia and CMV of the lungs.
This felt like I was being turned into a reptile from the inside out.
I mean that I had hard bumps on the side of my inner mouth that couldn't be rubbed off but this cleared up after taking lozengers they gave me. Tonsil Cheese didn't occur then.

(Definitions from Steadman's medical dictionary vesion 2, 4th edition,
I have on my PC)


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kbella
Unregistered

Re: Chronic Tonsil Cheese new
      #95980 - 04/18/04 07:19 PM

I first experienced this 5 years ago and only periodically since then. Today being the last time that it has occured. I was totally distraught and had no idea what happened. I have never until today ever found exactly what this is. I am concerned and would be very interested to know what your doctor said. I was doing aerobics and all of the sudden. Give me any advise that you have! mypinklink@aol.com

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Chronic Tonsil Cheese new
      #96160 - 04/21/04 01:46 AM

I would love to know what people are doing about this tonsil cheese. What did that doctor recommend?

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Chronic Tonsil Cheese new
      #101333 - 07/12/04 11:36 PM

I have dealth with this off and on my entire 38 years, and it aggravates me to no end every time I get that taste in my mouth and know that I will soon see a white rock in the back of my throat. I have come up with many ingenious ways to try to get those chunks out of my tonsils, most recently using the cans of compressed gas sold to blow the dust ouf of your computer keyboard to blast them out. This worked sometimes, if the tonsil chunks (I have called them throat rocks all my life) are not too large or not lodged in too tightly. I did this unti I read the warning on the can that says "inhalation may cause immediate death". It is a very frustrating situation because your breath is bad, your mouth tastes bad, and there is nothing you can do about it. Anyone successful in making this condition go away, please feel free to contact me!.
Thx!
RF

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Chronic Tonsil Cheese new
      #111343 - 09/06/04 07:20 PM

your so right, maybe too much information there. :O)
Now I regret posting this lengthy commentary on Tonsil Cheese cause I searched my username on google and guess what comes up on top. LOL So let this be a learning experience for everyone out there about posts that haunt you later.

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Anonymous
Unregistered

SOLUTION Re: Chronic Tonsil Cheese new
      #111350 - 09/06/04 11:46 PM

2 promising solutions to this problem:

1) get a waterpik, and clean out the crypts with the normal water pik extension, set on the lowest pressure. It will take practice before you can do this without gagging. It worked for me.

2) get a waterpik, but buy a throat irrigator extension:

http://www.theallergyreliefcenter.com/store/moreinfo2.cfm?Product_ID=203

Note: re the purchase of water pik -- i would get any model except for the portable one that has less water capacity

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Chronic Tonsil Cheese new
      #111363 - 09/07/04 02:38 PM

ya, i've had these pesky little things, i refer to them as bad breath kernels, haha. my solution is to suck them out. it takes practice but but try sucking on the roof of your mouth then move your tongue to the side of your mouth, still sucking (keep your tongue shaped like a spoon) and these annoying things usally come out in a few chunks..werks for me!

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Chronic Tonsil Cheese new
      #111587 - 09/15/04 08:22 PM

I also have had this affliction for most of my 58 years. I also use my tongue to push against tonsils and suck to some degree to get it out.

Not until a few years ago did I start to try and work inside my mouth with devices to put pressure upon the area. I started doing this because my daughter has it also and she says she cleans up her tonsils every morning and does so with a large hair pin.
I have to use a small pen light flashlight to see inside my mouth and then use a crochet hook to push on the affected area if I can see in fact where it is. Sometimes I cannot find it but I always know it is there because I can feel it with my tongue. I also maufactured myself something from a paper clip. I spread it all out and then make a circle on one end about the size of a large pea and then push this against area and I found it very successful.
I have found as the rest of my body at this age becomes more flabby my tonsils seem to have this characteristic also and it is becoming more difficult to achieve the results I want. I also have found that I seem to get a lot out but it just keeps coming back immediately in same spot. So I have decided that there is a much bigger buildup behind the actual place I can see.
I also notice that sometimes I cannot see it but I can see something white underneath the skin of my tonsil so I just start pushing in that area and usually come up successful.
It is a tiring process for me when I have periods of a lot of the secretion because I am always working at trying to get it out with my tongue.
Before I saw this my daughter and I thought we might be the only ones with such things. Although we were talking about it one day and my youngest son said he has it too.
It's a real pain.

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Chronic Tonsil Cheese new
      #111588 - 09/15/04 08:32 PM

I have also had this affiction for most of my 58 years.
I used to get it out with my tongue and a sucking action until my daughter told me she gets hers out with a large hair pin.
I now use a crochet hook(not the hooked end) and also have manufactured something from a paper clip. I straighten it all out and then make a circle on one end about the size of a large pea and push this against the affected area.
Sometimes it is difficult to see where it actual is but I can always feel it with my tongue and when I cannot find it I get very furstrated and it wears me out trying to figure out where it is.
Sometimes I cannot see it but I see something white under the skin and so I start pushing there and it usually works.

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rkandck
Unregistered

Re: Chronic Tonsil Cheese
      #112336 - 10/05/04 09:50 PM

Hi Brent,
I too have tonsiloliths. I have had this all my life and have had chronic bad breath all of my life. I am 28yrs old and have mentioned this to Dr a number of times. I just recently had a Dr who was finally able to tell me what it is and I believe that I will also need to have my tonsils removed. I will be meeting with a specialist to discuss it soon. How did everything go with you?

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