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Barty
Unregistered

HAART in Blood vs. Tissue
      #55775 - 01/23/03 08:33 PM

Medscape, a physician Web site, published this month a study on "HIV" detection in blood vs. tissue. This highly technical paper basically says in patients taking HAART with no detectable viral load, they found plenty of HIV DNA and RNA in rectal tissue and peripheral blood. Their conclusion is that even though HAART leads to undetectable viral load in blood plasma, it doesn't suppress it anywhere else. What's more, the two references they cite as proving HAART is effective are from 1996 and 1997, when the drugs were first offered.




http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/446613?mpid=8689





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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: HAART in Blood vs. Tissue new
      #55819 - 01/23/03 10:21 PM

Wow, you guys are really reaching, aren't you? Why can't you just let us use this forum for what it's supposed to be used for?

Anyway. I wouldn't use "plenty" to describe the amount of HIV they found in the patients' rectal tissue: "detectable" is the word the researchers use in the study, meaning >50 copies/ml. We're not talking 100,000 copies/ml here -- we're talking levels that were slightly above undetectable, which I'm afraid is still incredibly lower than they were before those patients began taking their HIV drugs. (BTW, it was only 65% of the 40 patients in the study who actually had detectable HIV RNA levels in their rectal tissue.)

At any rate, what this study does is confirms what most HIV researchers already knew: That there are these so-called "reservoirs" of HIV in various parts of the body that HIV drugs just aren't capable of getting rid of. It's why the drugs aren't a cure; HIV still manages to find places to live even though it's been severely impaired. Nobody says the drugs are perfect, buddy. They're just an awful lot better than the alternative.



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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: HAART in Blood vs. Tissue new
      #55905 - 01/24/03 11:56 AM

OK, Ok!! The statement didn't seem like an attack, so let's not lose patience here. It seemed like the person was just stating something they read...

Not everyone knows that there are reservoirs of HIV in the body that HAART doesn't get to (like cells in the lymph nodes, I believe- but don't quote me on this); so I suggest, in the nicest possible way, that we try and enlighten people with answers as opposed to criticizing them for their questions.

P.





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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: HAART in Blood vs. Tissue new
      #55907 - 01/24/03 12:11 PM

1. The Body says this site is for:
"It's a place to find friends, share your feelings, express your anger, ask advice or offer your help." (from the About The Body Bulletin Board"
2. The fact that you so defensive shows that you are not a critical thinker. I never said the drugs didn't work, you subconsicously came to that conclusion and struck out.
3. I'm not your buddy.




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gregg629
Guardian

Reged: 04/16/01
Posts: 438
Loc: Boston
Re: HAART in Blood vs. Tissue new
      #55908 - 01/24/03 02:07 PM

I haven’t’ been a part of this discussion threat until now, but I felt I had something to add.

Yes, this site is for all those things, “find friends, share your feelings, express your anger, ask advice or offer your help” and it's how most people use these forums. However, there are a few that don't use the forums for that purpose. They are denialists and they use it as a soapbox to preach their legally negligent garbage.

You write "the fact that you so defensive shows that you are not a critical thinker” Actually the fact that the person who responded to you was defensive shows how fed up those of us that use this site daily are with the denialists. The constant bashing, posting repetitive article after article, the threats the demands, the cyber terrorism that this board has been under for the last few months takes its toll on everyone. That's what I believe the poster's defensiveness shows.

I guess I'm curious as to your reason for posting this article, was it just to share information on something that you found interesting, to bring new thoughts to the group, or to say that HAART doesn’t work and those of us who take drug cocktails are just slowly poisoning ourselves and should listen to the denialists?

You will find that nerves are very raw on here and people take quick response to anyone they feel is a denialist.




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Barty
Unregistered

Some Heart Advice for Difficult Times new
      #55910 - 01/24/03 02:22 PM

The Body must have not thought I was a "denailist," or they would have deleted the post. Actually, I'm just a pretty average guy who thinks we all should have the latest science-based information on HIV. The interesting thing is how you interpret it. The need for humans to be "right" is very powerful; could you ever concieve being wrong? In Buddhism the teaching is that you grow and learn until "things fall apart." Kind of like a phoenix from the ashes. Some heart advice for difficult times -- open yours.



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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Some Heart Advice for Difficult Times new
      #55911 - 01/24/03 02:31 PM

...and if you believe this "wonderful, altruistic, servant of humanity" (this is how he seems to wish to be perceived)I've got great swamp land in Arizona to sell you...
There is only one reason to post this information, and post it in a way that is misleading, inaccurate and false---and that's to mislead, misdirect and confuse.



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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Some Heart Advice for Difficult Times new
      #55912 - 01/24/03 02:36 PM

You cannot control anything in life but your resonse to whatever happens. The fact that the responses to this post are so emotional shows that something is wrong in HIV-ville.



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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Some Heart Advice for Difficult Times
      #55913 - 01/24/03 02:38 PM

The emotional responses to this post convinces me something is very wrong -- I mean, why would anyone get angry over an article from Medscape -- it's a physician site for Christ's sake. Someone's true colors are showing!



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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Some Heart Advice for Difficult Times
      #55943 - 01/24/03 06:30 PM

Hi - I'm the guy who wrote that first response. Gregg was dead-on with his explanation of why my tone was so standoffish. It's awfully easy, when people keep trying to load these boards up with those weird nonsense posts, to mistake a perfectly reasonable, informative message (albeit one I still don't understand the reason for including on this board) for a denialist one. So, yeah - it's not the article itself that's a big deal, though it does look like I've turned it into one. :) Sorry about that.

That said, I've gotta echo Gregg's question: What was the purpose of the post? The study you wanted to tell everyone about is a relatively small one that confirms findings HIV researchers are already aware of. What were you hoping to accomplish by encouraging people to read it? What did you want us to learn?

I hope we can still be buddies!



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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Some Heart Advice for Difficult Times new
      #55988 - 01/24/03 08:27 PM

I posted the article so people will think.



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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: HAART in Blood vs. Tissue new
      #56705 - 01/29/03 10:29 AM

Hi, All of you. Make use of best ever choice availabe. I am
still trying to find an answer for my brothers death due to AIDS and our lack of knowledge about it. Many times a day I wish he was alive and we would have tried HAART or some other medicine. I can not do anything because he is gone foe ever. If his treatment would have failed I at least had the satisfaction that we at least tried. We came to know about his HIV status only at the end. Eventhough medicne may have many draw back still it is available. A good knowlegable doctor is god send. Timely treatment saves a lot of life. Which was not there in my brothers case. I am sorry this may not be relavent to this articale. I am very restless. I want every one to do thier best and help each other.



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BartyLies
Unregistered

Denialist posts
      #56993 - 01/31/03 01:15 PM

So you are just an average guy, who happens to post an article (totally misinterpreted as usual) trying to imply HIV therapy doesn't work?

You post on this site in an "innocent" manner, crying "who, me?" when someone calls you a denialist?

Explain then if you will why you initiated a discussion on the AIDSMythExposed denialist site which reads:

Texaninweho (Original Message) Sent: 23/01/2003 22:06
"Medscape, a physician Web site, published this month a study on "HIV" detection in blood vs. tissue. This highly technical paper basically says in patients taking HAART with no detectable "viral load," they found plenty of "HIV" DNA and RNA in rectal tissue and peripheral blood. Their conclusion is that even though HAART leads to undetectable "viral load" in blood plasma, it doesn't suppress it anywhere else. Could it be that's because the DNA and RNA scraps they are finding are harmless and not some hideous virus called "HIV"? The title Medscape put on my e-mail when they sent this to me was: "Using HAART, it is now possible to reduce plasma HIV-1 RNA to undetectable levels” which is not even what the conclusion to this study was about. Also, their reference in the study to proof that HAART prolongs life is from an article in the New England Journal of Medicine from 1996! -- the same year the drugs became available!

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/446613?mpid=8689"

Notice any similarity between this and your own post, Barty/Texan/Anonymous/whatever?





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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Denialist posts new
      #57239 - 02/03/03 05:16 PM

Focus! Why are you on some rabid quest to see if Barty is a denialist? Who cares? The information he/she presented is what it is. We need to know the truth, that HIV drugs render HIV undetectable in the blood but not the entire blood. Ignorance never helped anyone. A man said some 2,000 years ago "Know the truth, the truth shall set you free."



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BartyLies
Unregistered

Re: Denialist posts new
      #57308 - 02/04/03 11:29 AM

The truth is what we all want. If "Texan in Weho" AKA Barty wants to enlighten us, he can point us to the article and alert us to its conclusion, not his denialist-twisted interpretation of the part of the article he wishes to highlight because he can claim it lends crecedence to his opinion of HIV therapy.

Barty, or "texaninweho" as he is known on the AIDSmyth board, is merely posting here as a troll. For those of you who wish to know his real views, a few moments reading his posts on aidsmyth will make it clear what his HIV agenda is.

It is definitely not, as he tries to claim, within the remit of this board.



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