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BabyPeanut
Fanatic

Reged: 09/25/02
Posts: 55
Web Site owner goes to court to force 'troll' off
      #55148 - 01/18/03 06:03 PM

This website: http://www.cleveland.com/tech/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/business/104288693631280.xml

Has this story:

Web site owner goes to court to force 'troll' offline

01/18/03
Chris Seper
Plain Dealer Reporter

A local pest-control Web site is trying to exterminate what it believes is a specimen of one of the Internet's most bothersome creatures: The Message Board Troll.

GIE Media, a Cleveland company that runs the online pest-control portal PCT Online, is suing an Arkansas man who the company says is constantly leaving obnoxious and offensive messages on its Internet bulletin board and then, after he is banned from the site, sneaking back using fake names.

While the Internet has allowed the world to communicate, many public message boards are plagued by users - often referred to as trolls - who spew personal attacks, emit racist invectives or yell an online version of "fire" in a crowded theater.

Many companies ban users, delete posts and even change locations to avoid abusive users. But GIE's suit against Ronald Huckaby in U.S. District Court is one of the more extreme attempts yet to control chatter on Internet forums.

GIE is alleging trespassing, breach of contract and violations of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. It is seeking at least $5,000 from Huckaby. The company also wants the judge to bar him from visiting PCT Online.

"This is a little extreme, but there comes a point when you have to draw the line," said Michael Sweeney, a lawyer for the company.

A man who answered the phone at Huckaby's home in DeQueen, Ark., said he was working and wouldn't want to talk about the Web site.

To Sweeney, this isn't a case about free speech but about honoring the contracts - those long terms-of-use agreements most users click through - that users accept before they use an Internet service.

PCT Online's message board (www.pctonline.com/messageboard) is a tame collection of messages about fire ant treatments, squirrels in the attic and the best way to capture a feral cat.

But Huckaby and a few other users chased away many of the regular users with a mix of angry messages and racially charged exchanges, according to the lawsuit and regular visitors to the site. The suit says Huckaby's exchanges cut traffic to the Web site and as a result hurt advertising revenue and sopped up staff time required to bar him and his comments.

The suit said Huckaby regularly violated the rules of the forum - it bars abusive, hateful or vulgar language - and Huckaby repeatedly was asked to stay away from the site.

"Just like anyone else, he'd get in his certain moods and nothing could calm him down," said Randy Harrah, a regular visitor to PCT Online who works at Innovative Pest Management in Akron.

It's rare for a company to sue someone for bombarding its message board, said Wendy Seltzer, a staff lawyer with the Electronic Freedom Foundation in San Francisco. Seltzer said that, contrary to popular belief, Internet speech can almost always be regulated. Even though there are all kinds of Web sites distributing all kinds of thoughts, there's no purely public place for the rejected outcasts.

Every message board is run by someone who can delete messages and every Web site is hosted by companies that can kick them out if they don't like their content, Seltzer said.

"It sounds in part that this [lawsuit] highlights the lack of public spaces on the Internet," Seltzer said. "I would be more comfortable saying they could kick off whoever they wanted if there was someplace else they could tell him to go."

To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:

cseper@plaind.com, 216-999-5405






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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Web Site owner goes to court to force 'troll' new
      #55197 - 01/18/03 11:15 PM

Sounds like our ridiculous "HIV doesn't cause AIDS" poster. The brainless guy just posts the same damn thing for months. But he is so afraid of anyone finding out who he is he won't give his name... I hope they bring him to court.




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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Web Site owner goes to court to force 'troll' new
      #55223 - 01/19/03 01:26 AM

I have to laugh!, (someone hand me a tissue, please) This is the internet version of "NANNY BANNY BOO BOO!!! PFFFLLLLTTT!!!" I've always thought this guy was a child and this just proves it.



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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Web Site owner goes to court to force 'troll' new
      #55227 - 01/19/03 01:32 AM

How pathetic. Is that the best you can do? It is YOU who is the child.



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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Web Site owner goes to court to force 'troll' new
      #55283 - 01/20/03 02:31 PM

HAhA HAHA HAAAHH HAAAHH HAAAA HA HA HAA HAAA!!! So let me traNslate his last comment for the benefit of others. He uses computerspeak to cover his childish bullying. This last comment means "IT'S NOT ME, ITS YOU! SO THERE!"



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killfoile
Fanatic

Reged: 12/23/02
Posts: 57
Loc: Fort Lauderdale FL
Re: Web Site owner goes to court to force 'troll' new
      #55320 - 01/20/03 11:38 PM

How sad that my first post in this forum would be to respond to such a small-minded, mean-spirited person. By all means, you should be able to speak your mind, in a civilized, sensible and mature format. Unfortunately, what I have read from you sir, is nothing but drivel. You claim that hiv does not cause Aids. Do you have proof? You claim the Body is subservient to its advertisers. Do you have proof? If so, why have you not produced it? If you are so sure of your beliefs, why do you post under Anonymous? Are you afraid to expose yourself to the light of reason. I think you are.

You see I know who you are. You are the voice of unbridled anger and fear, the voice of ignorance and hatred. You believe that by belittling others, you will gain in stature. You are sad and to be pittied. Unfortunately, only through our ostrasizing you, will you crawl back into your dark place. If only you could choose to engage in meaningful conversation, this forum and others would eagerly greet you. But it is obvious you cannot and/or will not.

I wish you luck on your life journey and advise you that I will not respond further to any of your posts. It is evident that your mind is too small to accommodate any rationale discussion of much of anything.

Good Health, Joe

If you remember me, through simple acts of kindness, I will live forever.

--------------------
Good Health, Joe

Life is what happens, when you are busy making other plans.

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Web Site owner goes to court to force 'troll' new
      #55321 - 01/20/03 11:54 PM

What you have read from me comes direct from sources like the CDC, FDA, SSHA, LA Times etc, etc. If it is 'drivel' than it is the fault of those sources.

Much of what I say is said by other posters but in a watered down form. Thaank you for your rude and childish post.

Best wishes,



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killfoile
Fanatic

Reged: 12/23/02
Posts: 57
Loc: Fort Lauderdale FL
Re: Web Site owner goes to court to force 'troll' new
      #55342 - 01/21/03 12:23 AM

Dear Anonymous,

I will break my previous post in that I just had to respond to your last comments. Please tell me who stated that hiv does not cause Aids and what position they hold in either the CDC or the FDA. Please cite the sources, website, etc.. I have been positive for 17 years and have never heard any respectable source ever spout such nonsense. Please note that I used the term respectable source.

As to your simply providing watered down comments, that you read elsewhere, I suggest you check your sources and their sources. There are a lot of misguided people in the world as I am sure you know. To merely repeat something because you believe it, and not because it is true is very misguided and foolish.

As to my replies being childish, I am sorry if the voice of reason offends you. I am not being childish when I engage in a mature and meaningful discussion as I have tried to with you. Obviously you are unable to back up your claims, so the only response you can have are the ones you remember from your childhood.

Good Health, Joe

If you remember me, through simple acts of kindness, I will live forever.

--------------------
Good Health, Joe

Life is what happens, when you are busy making other plans.

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gregg629
Guardian

Reged: 04/16/01
Posts: 438
Loc: Boston
Re: Web Site owner goes to court to force 'troll' new
      #55378 - 01/21/03 10:00 AM

Hey Joe,

Let me say, there's no way to argue with this person. They have been posting on here for quite a while, usually late at night or weekends when the board monitors have left. They target their posts for when they feel they will last the longest. They also don't have any desire to discuss just to rant post the same repetitive thing over and over. They claim that their freedom of speech is being violated because they are not able to post their criminally negligent information. They claim that they are the victims of Pharmaceutical Company censorship, and that they body is only a marketing front for the big drug companies. They claim that they get their facts from the CDC, FDA and other sources and yes, a good deal of the time they do post charts and graphs from the CDC, however they will take 1 chart off a page with 20+ charts and post it totally out of context just because it, on it's own, makes a case for what they are saying. However anyone that goes back and reads the entire report will see that in the context that the chart was originally presented it has a totally different meaning.

Don't be sorry that your voice of reason offends "them", they are denialists and anything that challenges their belief will offend them. They claim to be large in number, posting as various HEAL organizations and ActUp Groups however I have talked to several members of local Boston and NY Actup Groups who try very hard to distance themselves from the damage this person does to their groups good names.

I have been a regular on here for over 4 years and have met a great number of incredible people, I have tried hard recently not to get involved with the denialists because there is no way to talk to them and they will only drag you down in any conversation you try to have with them. I have found the best way to deal with them is to just ignore them and go about the business of what we are all here for.

Look forward to hearing more about you, how your 17 years of being positive has been. I’m starting on my 5th year and doing very well.

Well I hope to trade more posts with you.

Gregg




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killfoile
Fanatic

Reged: 12/23/02
Posts: 57
Loc: Fort Lauderdale FL
Re: Web Site owner goes to court to force 'troll' new
      #55401 - 01/21/03 05:04 PM

Greg,

Your points are well taken. I used to think that you could talk about just about anything with someone in a rationale manner. Boy was I wrong with this group. I just spent the afternoon reading at Virusmyth.com and talk about living in abject denial. How sad to waste such energy in such a misguided manner. Reasonable alternate viewpoints are one thing, but this group makes the Flat Earth Society look positively sane.

Good Health, Joe

If you remember me, through simple acts of kindness, I will live forever.

--------------------
Good Health, Joe

Life is what happens, when you are busy making other plans.

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Web Site owner goes to court to force 'troll' new
      #55403 - 01/21/03 05:22 PM

Dear Joe,


I am happy to back up my claims: -

Helene Gayle of the CDC admits: no scientific proofs for the existence of HIV
adsl-208-188-223-42.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net
Sat Jul 8 12:30:15


Press Release - For immediate circulation

Ref.: International World-AIDS-Conference

Dr. Helene Gayle of the CDC Atlanta in front of South African President Thabo Mbeki admits:


Still today there are no scientific proofs for the existence of "HIV" nor for the validity of the tests.

Before the International Aids Conference begins in Durban, the South African President invited experts to two prior meetings where current opinion on HIV and AIDS were critically
discussed. President Mbeki had become concerned
about the very different views concerning AIDS. His doubts had been particularly aroused by the monotherapy of AZT/Retrovir is have meantime begun to consider this therapy of
the late 80´s / early 90´s a big mistake.

On President Bill Clinton´s initiative, representatives of the US Health Agency, CDC, took part in the two meetings. At the last meeting the US Delegation offered to cooperate with
South Africa to look for proof of the of the so-called
AIDS-Virus HIV and the validity of the tests.

For the first time in the history of AIDS it was decided to try to isolate
the so-called AIDS-Virus HIV and thus provide scientific proof of its existence. It was also agreed to seek evidence of the specificity of the tests; that means that the tests only reacts
in the presence of antibodies HIV. Something not
done yet either.

According to the head of the US Delegation, Dr. Helene, the CDC will participate in these investigations to be undertaken in Africa together with renowned experts. First results are
expected some time in December 2000.

This whole undertaking should certainly have been done much, much earlier, and it should not now be necessary to form a new commission to start this investigation at such a late
state.

This is, however, the first time that US Health admit that in AIDS no specific Virus has ever been discovered. That there is simply no evidence that HIV is the cause of AIDS. And this
16 years after the then US Secretary of Health,
Margaret Hekler on the 23rd April 1984 announced to the whole world the scientific discovery of a virus in with AIDS, also that an application had been made for patenting this
"discovery", and, finally, that the US authorities had
approved "HIV"-tests.

The failure to isolate the HI-Virus directly affects the validity of the tests, as an indirect method such as an antibody test must be measured against concrete evidence.

The only possibility to prove the existence of the -Virus is the isolation of the specific virus. This has not yet been done. Consequently the tests cannot, with any degree of certainty,
show that a person tests positive has actually been
infected by a virus.

Conclusion: neither is there proof of the existence of HIV ? according to the standard rules of virology ? nor is there any scientific for the validity of the antibody tests.


This Press Release is being issued because of the vicious on the South African President, Mr. Thabo Mbeki, in an article initiated by more than 150 scientists, published in the
scientific magazine Nature" on the 6 July 2000.

In this article, known as the "Durban Declaration" (see also our press release "The Dishonouring of Science", 29/6/200 ) authors maintained that the hitherto known affirmations on
HIV and AIDS comply with the highest scientific
standards.

Under the leadership of the German Association Wissenschaft, Medizin und
Menschenrechte, e.V." (Science, Medicine and Human) several organisations from different countries (Chechia, Spain, Holland, Italy, England, USA and others) asked the signatories
of the Durban Declaration to provide the South
African President, and with that the world, with the scientific evidence for the so-called HI-Virus and for the validity of the.

Till this very moment the signatories of the Durban Declaration have not responded, with the exception of the CDC representative, Dr. Helene Gayle, offer to carry out new
investigations in South Africa rather contradicts her previous
adhesion to the Durban
Declaration.

Dortmund & Stuttgart, 7/7/2000

Dr.Stefan Lanka, Karl Krafeld



This press release can also be found on the internet:
http://www.aids-info.net durban
_____


Nothing I say is opinion but is based on solid factual material. In most cases I provide references and other means to check my statements. Can other posters say the same?

I am not here to offend but to present the other side of the picture for those who wish to make informed decisions. Everyone is free to ignore the information if they so wish.

Best wishes



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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Web Site owner goes to court to force 'troll' new
      #55692 - 01/23/03 12:22 PM

You're amazingly wrong. Helene Gayle is no longer head of the CDC...she's head of the Bill Gates Foundation http://www.gatesfoundation.org/aboutus/leadershipstaff/bio_gh_gayle.htm and she certainly believes HIV causes AIDS...You may have one quote out of context but she bleives that the treatments for HIV are beneficial and that HIV is sexially transmitted so she certainly has no affiliation with your lunatic group!

She makes decisions on funding millions of dollars worth of donations to stop the sexual spread of HIV (through microbicides, etc) Your release is 2 years old...You are no scholar in your attempt to convince anyone of your silly point of view...

So you have one bizarre world leader of a third world country who blieves in your crap....Not very impressive....as Chris McGreal, a writer in The Guardian notes,

"There is an alternative view of Mbeki - one that is gaining ground in South Africa, particularly among those who fought to end apartheid. It is that, far from being an aberration, Mbeki's views on Aids - and, more importantly, the methods he uses to impose them and deal with those who disagree - are central to his character and style of governance. And they are a threat to South Africa's fledgling freedoms. For while Mbeki has shed his belief in socialist economics, he has clung dearly to the methods of political control he was schooled in during his years on the central committee of South Africa's communist party. Bound up with this is Mbeki's own obsession with race. Clearly it plays a part in his views on Aids - as he made clear in an extraordinary speech a year ago in which he accused those with a more conventional view of the disease of denigrating black people as vice-ridden germ carriers unable to control their lust, and black people who agree with them as "negroes of enslaved minds".

Mbeki may well believe all this, but why does he lie so consistently in defence of his views? He misrepresented World Health Organisation statistics to parliament in an attempt to claim that Aids accounts for only a small proportion of deaths in Africa. He argued for a cut in his own government's Aids budget with false figures. He told the BBC that murder is a bigger killer in South Africa than Aids. It was just one of many lies. Through it all, Mbeki said he was merely seeking an open debate, but those who disagreed with the president found he isn't seeking answers at all. When the medical research council (MRC) predicted nearly 800,000 deaths a year in South Africa from Aids by the end of this decade, the president's chief enforcer, Essop Pahad, implied the researchers were working for multinational drug companies.
Pahad's office launched a campaign to pressure and vilify the MRC's president, Malegapuru Makgoba, by accusing him of playing into the hands of white racists who wish to portray Africans as "inherently and intrinsically diseased". The ANC distributed a fat document which claimed anti-HIV drugs are an attempt to commit genocide against black people and another that compared anti-retrovirals to "the biological warfare of the apartheid era". White researchers were singled out and vilified as racists and little short of murderers. Mbeki even told his party that the CIA was scheming with American drug companies to discredit him over Aids because he is challenging the world economic order. South Africa's president is welcome in Downing street and the White House precisely because he so closely adheres to the prevailing economic orthodoxy.
The official opposition is weak, ineffective and largely without credibility among blacks after running a racist presidential campaign. It has fallen to others to keep the flame of democratic accountability burning in South Africa. A small groups of Aids activists, the Treatment Action Campaign (TAC), has done more than most to force Mbeki's administration to face up to the basic moral responsibilities to the people it governs.
The Tac's great victory was in dragging the government to the constitutional court to force it to provide the drugs that can save the lives of the 35,000 babies. The South African paediatric association says about 70,000 babies are born with HIV each year and that that number can be halved with the administering of a single dose of a very cheap drug, nevirapine, to mother and child at birth. Mbeki threw up a myriad of objections from unfounded concerns about toxicity and resistance (there's no such danger in a single dose) to the lack of infrastructure in some rural areas to provide HIV-positive mothers with bottles and formula as an alternative to breast-feeding (which is a little like saying that if you can't get an ambulance to the middle of rural Transkei there should be none in Johannesburg).

But there were other, more cynical, considerations at work. Mbeki's former spokesman, Parks Mankahlana, offered the shocking view that saving babies lives would only contribute to the orphan crisis because their mothers will die anyway. "A country like ours has to deal with that," Mankahlana told Science magazine in the US. "That mother is going to die, and that HIV-negative child will be an orphan. That child must be brought up. Who's going to bring the child up? It's the state, the state. That's resources, you see?" Never mind that the government is able to afford £4bn on importing weapons. Mankahlana has since died of Aids, although Mbeki says it was anti-retroviral drugs that poisoned him to death.
The Tac won a ruling that is mind-boggling in its implications. Essentially, the court offered the damning judgment that Mbeki's government was failing in its primary constitutional duty to protect lives. The ANC leadership's response has inevitably been to stall implementation of the court's ruling, and to rubbish the Tac. Its leader, Zackie Achmat, has HIV and is refusing to take the drugs that could save his life while they are not available in public hospitals. Mbeki's henchmen stooped so low as to accuse the Tac leader of faking his HIV status. That did not stop Mandela from making a high-profile visit to Achmat a few weeks ago and implicitly endorsing the Tac campaign.
The court victory was more than the single greatest defeat for Mbeki's government. The campaign for a humane and decent policy on Aids has opened the way to the legitimate criticism of the liberation movement and revived the activism of the 80s over a host of issues, from land rights to the prevailing emphasis on the pursuit of wealth. Until recently, there was a sense among those who had struggled so hard for liberation that criticism of the ruling party played into the hands of the old order, that it bordered on betrayal. But the bulk of those afflicted by Aids are poor and black. Try as Mbeki might, the accusations against those who oppose him and the party leadership on HIV simply don't wash. The growing public disquiet over the government's Aids strategy from within the unions and among those who once campaigned against apartheid has opened the door to the questioning of other policies - not least on the economy.
Mbeki has attempted to muddy the waters about Aids by claiming that poverty is as much a cause as HIV. Undernourishment, unsanitary living conditions and lack of proper medical care do indeed contribute to the speed with which the disease takes hold. But the idea that poverty, not the virus, causes Aids is nonsense. None the less, for the moment, let's take Mbeki's claim at face value. If poverty is at the root of the Aids pandemic, then it might be expected that alleviating the dreadful circumstances in which so many South Africans live would take precedence over all else. The statistics tell a different story."

Bu then this is all too intelligent for you...have any out of context clip to post? Surely.




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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Web Site owner goes to court to force 'troll' new
      #55700 - 01/23/03 03:45 PM

Please allow me to say thanks to people like Joe and Greg. As a female reader and poster I sometimes feel like the "odd man out" with some of these topics but the denialist issue clearly affects all of us. I appreciate and enjoy your thoughtful and intelligent responses to a small minded and ignorant person. Stay with this board, we need people like both of you.
L



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killfoile
Fanatic

Reged: 12/23/02
Posts: 57
Loc: Fort Lauderdale FL
Re: Web Site owner goes to court to force 'troll' new
      #55708 - 01/23/03 05:36 PM

Dear Anon,

Thanks for the kind words.

Hiv is tough enough to deal with, without whack jobs like this guy and group.

Together we will continue to repel them. Our sanity requires nothing less.

Good Health, Joe

If you remember me, through simple acts of kindness, I will live forever.

--------------------
Good Health, Joe

Life is what happens, when you are busy making other plans.

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Web Site owner goes to court to force 'troll'
      #56106 - 01/25/03 08:28 AM

It would be interesting....of course in court the whole source of your information would be reveled. Not just the bits and pieces you chose not to edit out so you can try a prove a point. Might not make your 'facts' and 'figures' look quite the way you try to make them look.



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