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HIV Transmission and Education >> Am I Infected?

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Worried 2000
Unregistered

5 Months Negative Test
      #7096 - 07/12/00 04:23 PM

I tested negative today on my 5-month test. (Exactly 149 days after exposure). I don't think I'm going to test any more.

The posts on this board have taken quite a negative turn lately. I, for one, miss the posts of those like Jedi Master, Mark 2000, and Dude, who gave accurate information without criticizing people or adding to their anxieties and fears.

I have no idea which type of Elisa test is being used today; I am confident that after 6 months you are negative; after 3 months you are > 95% certain that you are negative, regardless of which test you take.

I strongly recommend that people take a PCR test prior to that time if they are having difficulties coping. The PCR test, according to the doctors I saw at Mass General Hospital, is "as close to a medical certainty as you can get" after 28 days.

Dr. Eric Rosenberg of Mass General said that, when you are infected, the following happens:

(1) the virus begins replicating in your body immediately;
(2) around 3 weeks TO THE DATE the amount of virus has become so high that you begin to feel sick (the ARS syndrome we've all been posting about);
(3) This is because the viremia is at such a high level.

(4) At 4 weeks or so, a Viral Load PCR test is certain to be positive if you are infected, as the viremia may be as high as millions of copies/ml.
(5) Antibodies will begin being produced in sufficient quantities around this time that they will become positive on an Elisa test.

Keep in mind that I believe the following:

Infected = infectiousness. However you slice it, once you are infected with a virus, you can begin infecting others. You may have the virus in such small quantities that it will be undetectable on a test, but it is there. Look over at any website and you will find this, I believe.

I believe that the CDC says the average (mean) time to registering positive on a test is 25 days. I don't believe the CDC would be saying this unless they believed this was true across the country. They don't qualify by saying that it's 25 days given a certain kind of test. They say 25 days.

In any event, by 3 months, you will be almost conclusive in your testing. Test again at 6 months to be "as close to 100% as possible." Know that there are less than 5 recorded cases of people seroconverting after that point. In each of those cases, the people were consistently positive on PCR tests but negative on Elisa tests.

Good luck to all.



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wazzup
Unregistered

Re: 5 Months Negative Test new
      #7103 - 07/12/00 06:21 PM

Great post. I'm glad to hear of your negative test. I had a negative test too at 5 3/4 months. I think I'm done with testing already. I had three ELIZA's and one PCR. These last 6 months have been really stresful and now I am finally able to relax.



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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: 5 Months Negative Test new
      #7105 - 07/12/00 07:06 PM

Worried 2000, you are fine. I hope your life goes well and good luck with everything. Hope to see you around this board still in the future.



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Jedi Master
Unregistered

CONGRATS! new
      #7107 - 07/12/00 07:49 PM

You are right. Mark2000, The Voice, Dude, you and me have indeed stoped posting messages here. We all were a generation. A generation that last about 6 to 8 months, when soon we try for once to ACCEPT our tests. Just think all of the people that tested positive not after 2 or 3 or 4 test but just with the first test, nevertheless we cant accept not one but 2 or 3 or 4 test, man!. This generations comes and goes every 6 to 8 months. All we have what we tought was a possible exposure like 4 to 9 or 10 months ago, no we seen new generations of people who tought they might have gotten infected for a possible exposure that took place 1 week to 2 or 3 months ago. See, this generations stuff are in cycles. Our generation of people just stopped. You have taken a lot of test, both elisa and pcr and have decided to stop testing at 5 months. I have take "only" two different elisa tests, one at almost 4 months and another one at 4 1/2. My doctor told me that if he was me we would have stop testing at 3 months. So I decided to stop testing after those two test being negative the last one being at 4 1/2 months. The reason for you and me to stop testing is very easy, we are past more than 1 months and a half of the period time that is considered conclusive in most parts of the world, that is the 3 months window period.
I know its hard to believe sometimes. How come if the virus show its effects like in the next 2 (min) to 10 or so years after the infection they say that antibodies can be detected as soon as 3 weeks after the infection? BUT what we have to know is that WE ARE NO DOCTORS. If all these medical books, journals, studies and doctors and microbiologist are saying that 25 days is the average where like more than 70% or even more like France and Canada say, like (90%) for antibodies to be detected and that the 3 months window period its just a time frame to be extra secure (like they say in Canada or France) or a time frame where like more than 95% to 99% (like the CDC say) of the people will show a positive result if they are infected, we just have TO BELIEVE IT. PERIOD. Since we are no doctors and these doctors and studies and all the people involved (microbiologists too) say 3 months to be conclusive (or 6 months for the CDC) and these people have seen a lot of these cases and have made thousands and thousands of test, WHO ARE WE TO QUESTION THEY? I know, its just a thing of trust in your test. It took a lot of time to me to do it, and like you, I decided to stop testing. You did it at 5 months, I did it at 4 1/2 months but like most people say, you only need to test at 12 weeks, not more. Just think of this way, if you were to live in another world but the USA, like any country of southamerica, or central america or Canada or any country in Europe and you were in your situation you would have been actually quite happy with your negative 3 months test, why? because thats what your country says. Just think of all the people who doesnt know how to speak English or doesnt have access to the Internet, they doesnt even know what the CDC says, so they are more than happy with their negative 3 months test! Its because of the INFORMATION we have about what the CDC says than we arent able to trust completely our 3 months test. But, hey even a lot of respected places and healht deparments and organizations in the USA say 3 months. And many people in the CDC also believe and know 3 months is conclusive but like one man told I dont remember who in this forum, think it was BGD even tough he knows it is 3 months, thas inside information but they keep saying 6 months, because like another man told another person, i dont remember also, as they dont have total control to all the testing facilities and their equipments, to avoid these labs for screwing up, etc., etc., they keep saying 6 months. Anyway, remember the CDC is the ONLY agency, -I believe- in the whole world that still says 6 months.
Anyway Im glad you are fine. Im a lawyer too and had been one for 3 or so years, and now that you are going to start working as a lawyer, man, you are going to see that sooner than you know you are going to have in your desk so many problems, so many disputes, so many works, so many responsability that, heck, more sooner than later you are going to forget about all this hiv fear. Rememeber also that stress make a great factor in our supposed symptoms. And yes, something even worst than stress to my point of view, that is feeling guilty or ashamed. That is a great factor to us feeling bad and feeling these supposed "syptoms. So relax buddy and I wish you luck and happiness in your life.
P.S.: By the way, what do you think of my simmilar to yours decision to stop testing at 4 1/2 months?
P.S.S: As Im a lawyer to and a professor of law im gonna give you my email so we can stay in touch. It would be interesting sometimes to know your position and knowledge about contracts and other legal institutes since you are an American lawyer. Our legal systems, unlike yours, have a huge influence in the French (Napoleonic) and Italian system, so shoulg you need to do any bussines in Central America, Costa Rica or need to know anything about our legal systems and in general, about the Italian and French systems, feel free to contact me.
Bye.




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Worried 2000
Unregistered

Re: CONGRATS! new
      #7109 - 07/12/00 08:13 PM

Jedi Master,

Thanks for the nice note. I am trying now to get everything together for the bar exam, which is July 25-26. I never took classes in stuff like the UCC, family law, estates, trusts, and wills . . . . Needless to say, my decision to be confident in these test results is partially based on the fact that I gotta get my mind off of HIV for awhile.

Please pass along your e-mail. I still keep in touch with Dude from time to time.

Good luck to you. 4 1/2 months is almost certainly fine. I took this one at 149 1/2 days just because I have been testing every two weeks or so (compulsive) . . . . and I thought I'd get another.

No doubt, I will test again at 6 months. But I feel extremely good about my test.

Hope to hear from you and hope we stay in touch.



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Mark 2000
Unregistered

TO WORRIED 2000, JEDI MASTER new
      #7113 - 07/12/00 10:11 PM

Great news, Worried 2000! I am so happy for you! I think you are like me and may stop being a regular contributor to this site soon. If you or Jedi Master would like to continue corresponding then please post your request on this site and I will leave a email address where we can exchange email in a more secure location.





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Mark 2000
Unregistered

ONE more quick thing new
      #7114 - 07/12/00 10:14 PM

I'll check back next Tuesday for any responses. Thanks guys and good luck in the future.

Mark 2000



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Not_scared
Unregistered

Re: 5 Months Negative Test new
      #7115 - 07/12/00 10:23 PM

There is nothing "negative" about allowing people to believe that they are conclusively negative at three months if they take the appropriate test ACCORDING TO THE HEALTH DEPT OF THE ONE STATE AT THE EPICENTER OF THIS COUNTRY'S HIV EPIDEMIC: NEW YORK STATE. I had to wait a week before I got a chance to interview the top Medical Director for the NEW YORK STATE DEPT OF HEALTH in Albany, NY. They have issued an official publication that lays out various reasons for allowing one to consider three months conclusive. I wish I still had that piece of paper. I learned that even the Texas Dept of Health copied New York's publication without modification and even sends it out to Texans who ask for it, with the New York logo still on it!!!
They obviously respect New York Health Dept's experience. GO complain to New York's health dept about why they recommend a second generation test; I am providing only what I have carefully observed/recorded from hours of patiently listening to medical personnel with much more credentials than I have (and perhaps you have). I am just reporting it to you. If you don't like it or don't believe it, you are welcome to verify it yourself. Things are not always black and white, even in science!! I personally don't care what test you take or anyone else takes. I've just decided to believe what a very capable group of health experts in New York have concluded. I appreciate that you mentioned the doctor at Harvard but not everyone (especially me, an underpaid microbiologist) can afford a PCR for $330 or more.
You used the phrase "almost conclusive". I don't mean any personal offense to you Worried2000 but that statement is like saying "almost pregnant." It's all or nothing. And New York has more experience than any other state insofar as they are the epicenter since 1981 of this terrible horrible plague called HIV/AIDS.
I am only a soil microbiologist so I humbly claim NOT to be an expert; just want to add to the information available on this site. Not very sentimental person either; just the facts ma'am.



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To_worried_2000
Unregistered

Re: CONGRATS! new
      #7116 - 07/12/00 10:32 PM

congratulations! Another lawyer! wow, what are you the millionth lawyer this country has churned out? Wow, how do you all stay in business? I can't turn around without bumping into another paper-pushing lawya!



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Jedi Master
Unregistered

NOT_SCARED: THIS IS SO FUNNY... new
      #7121 - 07/12/00 11:45 PM

Not_Scared: stop saying that you are "only" a microbiologist. I mean microbiologist knows a lot of stuff and even specialized stuff that doctors dont manage that well. That is why, as you know, most of the times, doctors need to work in collaboration with microbiologist. Why do I respect that much microbiologist? Well, because I believe that microbiologists knows even more about hiv testing stuff than regular doctors, because the microbiologists are the head in the testing labs and they are the ones that performs the tests. So they DO KNOW HOW TO MAKE THE TESTS, WHAT KIND OF TESTS, THE SENSITIVITY, THE SPECIFICITY, ETC, ETC. If there is some professional with first hand knowledge about hiv tests are the microbiologists, that is, the professional and specialists that perform the test, and they have of course a lot of experience and know what they are talking about. Actually, i defend microbiologists because I stopped testing because the chief microbiologist and the testing lab I had the test, wich is very known and respected in my country and has a p.h.d. I think in the Hopkins institute, told me that I could be sure I wasnt infected with my negative test done past the 3 months mark (at almost 4 months and at 4 1/2 months)and that if he were me he wouldnt take another test. I believe him. He is a professional. He knows his works. I insist people: BELIEVE YOUR TESTS, BELIEVE YOUR DOCTORS. THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE SAYING BECAUSE THESE IS THEIR WORKS. (of course im talking about respected proffesionals).
So, Not_Scared stop being that extra humble. You have to know a lot about all this since you are a microbiologist. Com on. Enough of this unneccesary humble, I believe its always nice to have in this forum health related proffesionals like you.
Not like my case or most notable like Worried 2000 who has made and excellent and exhaustive work researching different sources, its difficult to us, we are lawyer, even tough some people seems to hate us in this forum just for being lawyers! Haha.



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Jedi Master
Unregistered

Well... new
      #7124 - 07/12/00 11:57 PM

actually there can be 1 million lawyers in every state of America, but you know what is the funny thing? That if you were to come to my office to help you in any case I would say, NO, please get out and go choose another of the 999.999 available lawyers not me. Why do lawyers still on market? Because there is work for everyone. Some lawyers have for clients decents people other have ASS_HOLES for clients.



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Not_scared
Unregistered

Re: NOT_SCARED: THIS IS SO FUNNY... new
      #7143 - 07/13/00 02:20 PM

I study soil and food bacteria so I am not very close to the medical circles. Thanks for the exaltation though!! It's nice to receive recognition that I am trying to be scientifically honest, accurate, and up-to-date. One of the things that's really embarrassing is when you fall behind in terms of keeping abreast of the latest study and I make an ass out of myself. That happened in my earlier post when I missed the Wolinsky studies everyone is quoting. Again, I am so preoccupied with Rhizobium japonicum and other soil bacteria (and I've studied Bacillus cereus) that you have to forgive me that I am not everyone's stereotypical idea of a medical microbiologist.



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