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Condom Defender
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CONDOM Mechanics-REPLY..comments warmly welcomed!!
#26630 - 01/08/02 05:12 PM
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Dear Mr. Dragon-
Well, this is different yet again from your early posts. I thank you for taking the time to clarify your thinking. I think the most critical thing is that HIV is NOT EASILY transmitted through a condom, as you mentioned. This is a dangerous thing to say. Now we know there are difference between a latex and lambskin condom.
So to answer your post:
1-I 100% agree that you should not have sex with anyone with an open wound under any circumstances
(INFECTED did just this). That would be stupid and reckless in any case. Drunkenness can prevent one from realizing this. In the case of our friend INFECTED, I would bet that his shorn area was very exposed to the ladies vaginal fluids and the roughness allowed it to penetrate and the high viral load that you mention was an enabler. NOT because the virus got through the condom or its pores if they exist.
2-I suppose in a way the condom does act as a second skin, but a LATEX condom does not have the pores you refer to. Please read the posts of Ryan Kull and Rick Sowadsky. A lambskin condom DOES have pores that many things including HIV can get through. There have been so many studies that speak to the effectiveness of a condom in keeping HIV and other nastiness OUT. I suggest you might want to read the Padian study of ‘87-‘91. The virus has been proven over and over again to not go through latex, even if it is 40x smaller than a “pore” of a lambskin condom.
3-In one post I think you said that the act of intercourse can wear a condom down, and that allows the virus through to the skin of the penis. I have never heard this or even heard it intimated in any way in any study anytime. You do not wear latex down as a result of penetrative sex. Condms made in the USA are double dipped in latex and are tested prior to packaging. They are categorized as a FDA medical device and subject to certain additional scrutiny.
4-The condom manufacturers do not say anything is 100%, because there of course is always that chance and if they did they would be sued and litigated into oblivion, regardless of reason cause or incident.
5-Again, I have never heard in any way that if you examine a condom after sex you will find traces of HIV. I have no idea if that study has ever been done.
6-The odds of infection with one protected act of intercourse are 1/500 with an infected person and higher with female to male.
7-Regarding the odds, it has been shown that the majority of hetero cases when re-examined have shown that there were in fact other exposures.
Finally, I want to circle back to a point you mad in another post that HIV is EASILY transmitted through a condom. I think we all had better be VERY sure of this before posting that it will cause hysteria and craziness.
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Here is a link, so you can decide for yourself whether hiv can pass through latex. FDA says it is rare but possible, and CDC says it is much more rare than that.
http://www.righto.com/theories/condoms.html
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Bearded Dragon
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More clarification for you...
IMPORTANT: When I stated HIV is EASILY transmitted through a condom, I BELEIVE IT IS, HOWEVER, I ALSO BELIEVE THAT BECAUSE OF THE PROTECTIVE PROPERTY'S OF LATEX, YOUR CHANCES ARE PURELY NILL FOR EVER GETTING HIV WHILE USING A CONDOM.
THAT IS WHAT I SAID, THAT IS WHAT I BELEIVE, AND WHAT I WILL CONTINUE TO BELIVE. I BELIEVE THAT HIV CAN COME INTO CONTACT WITH SKIN AND "NOT" INFECT ANYONE UNLESS THERE IS AN ABSOLUTE PATH TO THE BLOODSTREAM THIS IS MY BELIEF. BEFORE YOU JUMP SOMEONE, YOU BETTER BE DAMNED SURE OF WHAT THEIR SAYING...
1. I SIMPLY believe HIV is 40x smaller than a LATEX condom. LATEX CONDOMS ARE POROUS, this is a known fact, LATEX DOES have pores. WHAT I DID SAY, AND WILL CONTINUE TO SAY, IS THAT EVEN IF THERE IS JUST TRACE ELEMENTS OF VIRUS THAT "HAPPEND" TO SEEP THROUGH THE LATEX, IF A PERSON HAD AN ABRASION, CUT, ETC... IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE TO CONTRACT HIV DESPITE THE USE OF A CONDOM.
2. LAMBSKIN IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ANIMAL(NO PUN INTENDED), LAMBSKIN IS A MEMBRANE, WHICH IS PROVEN TO ALLOW STD'S TO SPREAD IF USED AS A "PROTECTIVE" MEANS INSTEAD OF THE INTENDED USE OF PLEASURE.
3. I NEVER, EVER said that intercourse wears a LATEX CONDOM down!! I simply said that "UNPROTECTED" intercourse wears the penile skin down causing abrasions, cut's, etc... I advocated THAT the USE OF A CONDOM PREVENTS THIS FROM HAPPENING, AS the latex condom serves as A SECOND LAYER OF SKIN.
4. CONDOM MANUFACTURES ARE OUT TO MAKE A LIVING LIKE EVERYONE IS, THIS WHY I STATED THAT NO CONDOM MANUFACTURES
PUT BOGUS WARNING'S ON THEIR PRODUCT. OF COURSE THEY COULD BE SUED, THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF THAT COMMENT. CONDOM MANUFACTURES HAVE BEEN WELL KNOWN TO BEND STATISTICS MIND YOU. I HAVE HEARD OF SEVERAL INDEPENDANT STUDY'S PROVING JUST THAT.
5. The comment regarding the "TRACE" element's inside of a condom used with an infected individual is purely MY OWN THEORY, AND I NEVER STATED IT AS ANYTHING ELSE. ALSO IT WOULD DEPEND ON A GREAT NUMBER OF FACTOR'S, WHICH I MENTIONED.
6. You state in your post that the odds of being infected by "1" PROTECTED act of intercourse with a HIV+ is 1/500. This data is incorrect, if you read that at the source site it will say, "1 UNPROTECTED act of intercourse with a HIV+ is 1/500 odds" AND those "ODDS" refer to FEMALE to MALE transmission. This need's to clarified as this is a "Dangerous" thing to say.
7. I DON'T DO ODD'S AND NIETHER SHOULD ANY OF YOU, ODD'S WILL ALWAY'S BE 50/50, YES OR NO, YOU DO OR DON'T. ODD'S ARE DANGEROUS!
BEFORE YOU JUMP SOMEONE, READ THEIR STATEMENT AND ASK FOR CLARIFICATION AS YOU DID, THAT'S WHY I RESPONDED. SOME OF YOU JUST LIKE TO STIR THE SH*T I FEEL, *READ/COMPREHEND* BEFORE TRYING TO BATTLE...
I hope I have clarified my belief's...
German Giant Bearded Dragon
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don't forget the urethra.
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Bearded Dragon
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Yes that link is good reading indeed...
Remember, the CDC is the ultimate in CONSERVATIVE trasmission of DATA.
I don't feel ENOUGH reseach has been done to indicate if transmitting through a condom is "RARE" however. Nor can I say factually THAT IT'S EASY, That is merely my belief as stated based on my own personal research of fact's. I don't no it all and could be very likely wrong. If I am I would be glad to admit it.
Thank's for the link...
German Giant Bearded Dragon
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Bearded Dragon
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Totally agree...
Bearded Dragon
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Your theory is "full of holes" no pun intended. You claim that the condom only works to protect the penis because it keeps the skin in tact. If this is the only protection offered by condoms, then how do you explain the protection that condoms offer to the receptive partner? According to you, when the penis ejaculates into the condom, hiv is "easily" passed through to the receptive partner. But clinical studies show that the condom is effective at preventing the receptive partner from being infected. Does the condom also act as a "second skin" for the receptive partner? Sorry, but you're theory doesn't hold water, no piun intended.
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Note-
This study by the FDA used HIV "look alikes" and not actual HIV. It seems to have been disproven by the CDC.
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Bearded Dragon
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Sorry but it does, your talking Apples and Oranges. You have just moved the whole "event" of intercourse from the vaginal walls to the head of the penis. The head of the penis is along for the ride, it's the vaginal wall friction I'm talking about. If worn correctly, the head of the condom is NOT even touching you. The side of the penis head is more applicable here. When a guy cum's, there is no data that supports that a condom is 100% air tight, TRANSMISSION is possible though highly, highly unlikely...
Bearded Dragon
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