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HIV Transmission and Education >> Am I Infected?

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anxiousanne
Member

Reged: 07/12/12
Posts: 21
Ecstasy
      #265255 - 08/04/12 11:15 PM

I have asked this question to others before I am just wondering if anyone has a deeper answer about this. I know that the only situations most people on these forums agree can cause seroconversion past 3 months are chemotherapy, antirejection drugs for organ transplants or chronic iv drug use. I am wondering about the drug ecstasy, because research has proved it can be immunosuppressive. One of the experts on this site states as an answer to a question that he does not know of any cases of delayed seroconversion from ecstasy use, but that there is research it is immunosuppressive. From what I've read, it reduces the cd4 cell count which as we know helps to create antibodies and fight infection. Therefore, couldnt ecstasy use cause the immune systems response to be slowed down to detecting the virus?

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kicker
Moderator

Reged: 10/25/10
Posts: 1016
Loc: GA, USA
Re: Ecstasy new
      #265258 - 08/05/12 02:52 AM

Everything I've read states that it either does nothing or it enhances the immune system not detracts from it.
The abstract suggests that MDMA has differential effects on immune function. Specifically, at *very low* concentration, (0.1 nM), MDMA enhances interleukin-2 production, but has no effect on interleukin-4 production. IL-2 induces proliferation of T-cells and also stimulates B-cells (these cells produce antibodies), natural killer (NK) cells, and macrophages. IL-4 mainly stimulates B-cells, but also T-cells and macrophages. B-cells themselves were unaffected by MDMA at all concentrations tested. NK cells' killing ability was enhanced over a range of concentrations. Cytotoxic T lymphocytes were suppressed at 100 uM.

Plus most doctors in the field of study suggest that any effect on the immune system is anecdotal because the levels have to be perfect to see any effect.

So to answer your question. No it would not have an effect on antibody production. If anything it would make you produce more antibodies sooner. So you would test positive. Good try though.

You get an E for effort. All puns intended.


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anxiousanne
Member

Reged: 07/12/12
Posts: 21
Re: Ecstasy new
      #265276 - 08/05/12 12:19 PM

I am not trying to prove this would delay seroconversion I am just asking those who would know more about it than I would and could give me more information. Could you include where you got that information from? I believe I saw what you commented from ecstasy.org? Dr. Fawcett on this website even claims the drug is immunosuppressive. I will attach two articles I found, one being from this very website. Please read and tell me what you think.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1782451/
http://www.thebody.com/content/art30189.html


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kicker
Moderator

Reged: 10/25/10
Posts: 1016
Loc: GA, USA
Re: Ecstasy new
      #265278 - 08/05/12 01:24 PM

First off the paper you attribute to proving your theory does anything but. It's working on controlled in lab environment and they even state that over the course of a few hours (mainly 6 hrs) without repeated dosing the effects on the immune system reverse. Even with a second and third dose the effects last up to 48 hrs and are done.

Here is what they said about their long term study.

"Whilst these non-controlled studies are interesting, the results obtained are somewhat difficult to interpret, for two reasons. First, it is not possible to ascertain if the suppression of immune parameters observed in the MDMA users is a result of MDMA abuse per se. For instance, it is outlined in the methods of the study that the subjects enrolled in the clinical trials were all habitual users of cannabis, with prior experience of cocaine or methamphetamine.36 As it is well established that cannabis, cocaine and methamphetamine all have significant immunomodulatory properties in their own right,1,2,5,6 it is impossible to discount the fact that they may have contributed to the immunological changes observed in this experimental group. The second issue pertains to the experimental design adopted in the 2-year follow-up study. In this study the control subjects were not tested at 1- and 2-year intervals, thus comparisons were made using historical data. For these reasons, one must be cautious when interpreting these results. For a summary of studies examining the impact of MDMA on immune function, see Table 1."

So the scientists even admit their long term study is flawed and they can not draw any conclusions about it. Why? Because their are to many other factors to consider outside the controlled lab setting.

So if you are popping E every six hours of every day for the entire time you are believing your infected sure it is POSSIBLE you would seroconvert late, is it PLAUSIBLE though, not in the least. Here is the difference between possible and plausible as an example. Is it possible that their is intelligent alien life out there in the universe besides us. Absolutely. Is it plausible that said intelligent life has visited earth while plausible given enough technology and a lot of luck it really really is unlikely to have ever happened yet.

The reason I don't believe that you have late seroconverted due to E use is because E builds up in your system with toxic results. Taking a dose every six hours to maintain the damaging effects on the immune system would lead to death or coma. Even if you took it once a day you would still lead to toxicity very quickly. Plus you wouldn't have the time to post on here about all the what ifs.

So unless you're willing to start wearing a tin foil hat to keep the aliens away I suggest you take up a better hobby than googling for crazy what ifs. Cause quite frankly if you can't sit there and read the entire thing and understand it on your own it means it's over your head and not something you need to be concerned with. If it was an issue for everyone they would dumb it down into simple basic terms.

So that closes this matter.

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Sherezade
Master

Reged: 03/28/12
Posts: 157
Re: Ecstasy new
      #265280 - 08/05/12 03:20 PM

Hey anxiousanne,
I think you have bigger issues than hiv to take care of. That is your continous use and abuse of illegal drugs. We are here not to judge anyone but to help others, and I'm just saying this for your own well-being. Stop using drugs, that's a very dangerous addiction. Get professional help asap.

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anxiousanne
Member

Reged: 07/12/12
Posts: 21
Re: Ecstasy new
      #265321 - 08/07/12 12:24 AM

Thank you for your response and I dont feel judged, as a college student with this behavior all around me and never being addicted to any drug I've always felt like my recreational use was "okay" because it wasnt affecting my schoolwork or changing my personality.. But i now realize how my recreational use put me in harms way in the first place. Even the night of my exposure I told my friend I would never use a needle and I ended up doing it and that one time could be costing me my health for a lifetime. I feel like such a horrible person (not to say that those who use drugs are horrible people because I do not believe that in the slightest) but just for putting myself in such a risky and scary situation that is stil haunting me now. I dont do anything now even recreationally and havent even drank in months besides for maybe a drink or two a few times in the past couple of months. People always assume that someone must be out of control to put themselves in such risky situations but I am a perfect example that is not true..no one that knows me or someone walkingdown the street would EVER think of me as The "typical" person who would be so concerned with HIV infection through such a high risk activity. It proves that the disease has no face and transcends racial/socioeconomic boundaries. Anyone is susceptible and I dont think most people believe that.

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