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HIV Transmission and Education >> Am I Infected?

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Brickwall
Regular

Reged: 05/08/11
Posts: 32
Undetectable PCR during 6 months?
      #255813 - 05/24/11 03:08 AM

I have always thought that PCR´s are highly sensitive and will detect HIV during the first 6 months (after 4 weeks)..

Now I hear many cases were PCR has been negative but people tests positive in antibodies..

Especially if people are really sick..

30 jan;
Assuming you have a positive confirmatory HIV western blot test result, yes, having an undetectable viral load is unusual, but not unheard of during acute infection. Your partner will need to have a follow-up test in 6 months to definitively rule out HIV infection.

6 March;
You don't indicate whether a confirmatory western blot test was performed and if the results of that test were positive. if both the HIV screening EIA and western blot test are positive, then yes, an undetectable viral load could be seen in the face of early HIV infection.


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Brickwall
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Reged: 05/08/11
Posts: 32
Re: Undetectable PCR during 6 months? new
      #255844 - 05/25/11 04:06 PM

Anyone?

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crabmanModerator
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Reged: 03/10/11
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Re: Undetectable PCR during 6 months? new
      #255847 - 05/25/11 07:52 PM

Why should anyone bother to respond to someone that refuses to listen to reason. It's just a waste of time.

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shwmeproff
Member

Reged: 04/11/11
Posts: 20
Re: Undetectable PCR during 6 months? new
      #255850 - 05/25/11 10:19 PM

Hello, I will share with you what Dr. Donald Craven at the Lahey Clinic told me , "not with today's tests , if hiv is present it's detected down to 5 copies , no escaping it "
(para phrasing ) Try a bdna viral load test ,it does not use PCR technology it will pick up anything even remotely missed by PCR technology . READ: "Your very creative use of resistance testing"April 28, 2004 Dr. Conway a former ASK THE EXPERTS CONTRIBUTOR , he's in the archives . Finally , have you had any positive tests ? Are you in the states ? If you are , Dr. Bob in the archives has mentioned the academy of Hiv physcians numerous times , you should find anyone in there who is more than competent.
I mention some specialized test in an answer on 5/18/11 12;06a.m. in JER2 post "seronegative but infected people" on 5/19/11 . Many docs at first will smirk and chuckle when you start out with asking for any out of the loop tests , understand they'll want all their own , Elisa and PCR's amd T-cell subsets and a cdc . let these tests ,your history and how you feel be the lead . They'll come around if there's even a hint of curiosity about your results and symptoms . . .But understand the advice you get on here from the regulars is 98% of the time right on , but I think even they must realize percentages drop to real world possibilities when you're talking about a million people at 1 in 10,000 odds that's 100 people as "exceptions" and that's at that % ,in 1 in 2000 people it's 500 people for every million

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Brickwall
Regular

Reged: 05/08/11
Posts: 32
Re: Undetectable PCR during 6 months? new
      #255854 - 05/26/11 04:36 AM

The text is from doctors answers here on the body!

I guess they should know?

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shwmeproff
Member

Reged: 04/11/11
Posts: 20
Re: Undetectable PCR during 6 months? new
      #255856 - 05/26/11 10:43 AM

Yes, i recognized those answers from Dr. Holodiny, but when were they given , because ultra-sensitive tests (<5 copies ) have really been around only last couple of years . If you had ONE pcr the chances( according to Dr. Paul Sax at JWatch ) of a wrong result is as high as 25 % of first tests not reliable , it goes down to 9% for two tests .Try the bdna as Dr. conway suggested to a few questioners (To read his answers type : Dr. Conway hiv testing in the Search Bar ) Take multiple tests at different times : based on that info I had 5 over one year period, never the same place twice . Go onto more sophisticated tests then---under a doctor's eye . Battle bro , but with intelligence not anxiety ..been there done that , it's still hard to accept negative status at 13 months and 33 tests .

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bartlebyAdministrator
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Re: Undetectable PCR during 6 months? new
      #255859 - 05/26/11 01:12 PM

from one of Dr. Bob's responses:

"RNA tests were not designed (or approved) for routine HIV screening and diagnosis. HIV PCR RNA tests are used to monitor how much HIV is growing (how rapidly HIV is replicating). It is very possible to be HIV infected but have an "undetectable" PCR-RNA if someone is on antiretroviral therapy (PEP, for instance). This could lead to confusion: The person tested might think he is HIV negative when in reality he is HIV positive but at the same time RNA undetectable."

Which is why, "HIV-antibody tests are FDA approved for diagnosing HIV disease. PCR tests (RNA and DNA) are not. Large epidemiological studies have been conducted to verify validity, sensitivity and specificity of HIV-antibody tests. The false-negative/false-positive percentage is acceptably low, particularly when combining a Western Blot test for confirmation of positive ELISA/EIA/rapid tests."

which means, get an HIV-antibody test, if you haven't already. but i know you've tested a lot. so if it is negative after six months, then you're negative.

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Brickwall
Regular

Reged: 05/08/11
Posts: 32
Re: Undetectable PCR during 6 months? new
      #255868 - 05/26/11 06:26 PM

Thank you for your answer.

Yes you are correct. I have also made the combo and anti body tests..

The PCR´s has been since I have been on medication (correct or not the future will tell)..

What is your point of view? I took medication after week 8. Approx 16 days.. after that approx a total of 20 days in different batches/sets (yes I know it is wrong.. but it has helped.. ) total 30+ days in three months..

How much would this interfere with testing/window period..

Severe symptoms now, CD4 360..

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Brickwall
Regular

Reged: 05/08/11
Posts: 32
Re: Undetectable PCR during 6 months? new
      #255869 - 05/26/11 06:29 PM

I think/thought that because my symptoms are severe.. the viral load should be high and detected on PCR tests..

Sadly I hear stories of people that has been sick for months tested negative on PCR´s and later suddenly positive on anti body tests.. I hope it is quite rare?

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shwmeproff
Member

Reged: 04/11/11
Posts: 20
Re: Undetectable PCR during 6 months? new
      #255870 - 05/26/11 08:19 PM

Hi, kind of curious ,when was your last antibody test in relation to your timeline from possible infection ? Do you know for sure your partner was infected ? If so and they were detected then you know it's not an outlier strain . What exactly does : "they tried to make PCR for HIV2 and found correlation" what does that mean in real world medical terms ?
PCR's don't pick up all strains but rare to miss one ,though Thailand reads like a place that could happen----it makes it that more compeling to revel your exposure , who with and do you know they've been definitively diagnosed Hiv positive ! There were seronegative individuals that never showed antibodys IN THE PAST but now ???(Extremely, extremely rare ,as Dr. Conway said in an answer thread: one handful !! and that was 4 years ago ! ) . BTW, cd4's can be low from a number of things and can vary by 100's taken at different times and places as your body fights and rebounds from infections . Not saying you may not have a compeling case it's just that there's not a lot of Hiv proff. BTW that cd4/cd8 % is withn normal range .
The board regulars will tell you as a king of the possible W.W.'s (See i still have to add that"possible" clause ) i give all possible individuals a far and wide latitude .
After going back and reviewing your vague exposure and without you saying that you know definitively your partner was positive , reading your tests, reading your symptoms . And who knows what kind of spawning virus of all kinds are floating around Thailand there is no compeling evidence that your sicknes is Hiv . Did you go to any Thailand docs who may know of a virus going around their populace ? Read RED32 thread for some serious exposure and symptoms .
=What all this means is that I find myself at this point agreeing with the board in a very nicer way . Without real compleing evidence : Exposure, indeterminate or positive tests , exacting symptoms, etc. , there is just not a Hiv indication anywhere . Did you place your case to Dr.Bob ? , if so what answer...?

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bartlebyAdministrator
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Re: Undetectable PCR during 6 months? new
      #255875 - 05/27/11 10:35 AM

i think the same thing that i thought before. you were testing negative. you shouldn't have taken HIV meds without testing positive and consulting with a doctor first. the medications you took themselves have side effects and could have contributed to your symptoms. now you should test again three months after your last dosage to confirm your results. i still say negative.

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Brickwall
Regular

Reged: 05/08/11
Posts: 32
Re: Undetectable PCR during 6 months? new
      #255879 - 05/27/11 11:10 AM

The last combotest was 21 weeks after risk!

"Antiretroviral therapy during the window period can delay the formation of antibodies and extend the window period beyond 12 months. This was not the case with patients that underwent treatment with post exposure prophylaxis (PEP). Those patients must take ELISA tests at various intervals after the usual 28 day course of treatment, sometimes extending outside of the conservative window period of 6 months." Wikipedia



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kicker
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Reged: 10/25/10
Posts: 1131
Loc: GA, USA
Re: Undetectable PCR during 6 months? new
      #255881 - 05/27/11 12:26 PM

I am going to see your flimsy at best Wikipedia and raise you a WHO.

"People potentially exposed to HIV should be encouraged to have HIV tests after completing
post-exposure prophylaxis. If the available HIV antibody test is very sensitive, testing immediately
after PEP is completed may initially indicate seroconversion outcome. However, testing at four or
even six weeks after exposure does not always allow enough time to diagnose seroconversion.
For this reason, it is recommended that HIV testing be performed 3–6 months after exposure.
Seroconversion following PEP does not necessarily mean that it has failed, as seroconversion
may result from ongoing exposure."

Being that Wikipedia contradicts itself in the statement you quoted from it and is available to be "edited" by any moron with a computer, WHO would trump your Wikipedia any day without so much as batting an eyelash.

Now try reading some real resource material. Here is the link to the document I pulled that from:

http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/2007/9789241596374_eng.pdf

Also you will find the above quoted reference on page 31 section 3.6.2

The document does not say that further testing outside the 6 month window is needed or warranted. Nor does it say that PEP will slow seroconversion. It does say however that the PEP treatment needs to be taken religiously for 28 days no missed doses to work properly and it does say that after 72 hours its useless. By your own admission you did not take it as prescribed, you have tested 6 months from exposure and you have nothing but negative results to show for it.

No offense, but pun intended, you are hitting a "brick wall" if you think it's HIV.

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justagirl72
Fanatic

Reged: 04/28/11
Posts: 57
Re: Undetectable PCR during 6 months? new
      #255885 - 05/27/11 01:05 PM

@ Kicker we need a like button here. Thanks for the data as it has answered a question I was wondering about.

--------------------
Could you show me dear?
Something I've not seen.
Something infinitely interesting


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Brickwall
Regular

Reged: 05/08/11
Posts: 32
Re: Undetectable PCR during 6 months? new
      #255909 - 05/29/11 07:22 AM

Thanks for your reply!

But I am NOT talking about PEP here.. I am talking about ART..

Medical reports state it could delay anti bodies up until 1 year..

And sadly I have not reached 6 months yet..

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