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HIV Transmission and Education >> Am I Infected?

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JER2
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Reged: 11/30/10
Posts: 72
Seronegative but infected people *DELETED*
      #255694 - 05/16/11 10:44 PM

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bartlebyAdministrator
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Re: Seronegative but infected people new
      #255714 - 05/17/11 04:21 PM

of course you would go out and search for cases that fit what you think you are going through. you have convinced yourself that you have HIV, despite many negative test results. now you want to use this blog entry about rare cases to support your belief.

you refuse to believe your doctors. you refuse to believe what Dr. Bob has told you and what people have told you on these boards. instead, you want to try and prove you have HIV, despite evidence to the contrary. take it somewhere else.

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Brickwall
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Reged: 05/08/11
Posts: 32
Re: Seronegative but infected people new
      #255716 - 05/17/11 06:23 PM

I understand that there are many worried souls out there.. the stories varies from paper cuts in the office to unprotected sex with HIV positives..

I think it is sad though how doctors can treat not yet detected people..

Even though they might be correct 98% of the time, those two person might get their lives ruined..

I agree that doctors should do everything they can in order to find the reason for lab results that is out of the ordinary..



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red32
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Reged: 04/10/11
Posts: 10
Re: Seronegative but infected people new
      #255717 - 05/17/11 08:47 PM

there is more and more people in this situation, I had umprotected vaginal sex with a confirmed HIV+ women, Had absolutly all symproms, rash, fever, periphiral neurepathy, vision, tinitus, and generalized persistant sweollen lymph nodes. and low cd4, high cd8, but negative test up to six months,the doctors dont know what to do but testing me periodicly and waiting till it turn (one day) positive.
Definitly the tests are not that accurate. at least for some people.

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crabmanModerator
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Reged: 03/10/11
Posts: 1102
Re: Seronegative but infected people new
      #255718 - 05/17/11 09:20 PM

**YAWN**

You tested negative...REPEATEDLY.

You claim you have symptoms but yet they are non-specific to HIV.

You claim you have AIDS while ignoring the facts of disease progression.

and yet you idiots never consider anything other than HIV. LOL You are such fucking fools.

Trying to convince the world you have some strain of HIV that plays hide and seek and you have it. It will be pretty funny when 60 years from now you are still fighting for the right to be HIV positive. Or of course there's the possibility that you're gonna die from something else since you won't let go of the fact you don't have HIV.

Silly little man.




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shwmeproff
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Reged: 04/11/11
Posts: 20
Re: Seronegative & Other non-antibody tests..? new
      #255719 - 05/17/11 09:55 PM

To all : Both sides of the argument make sense , I however fall on the side of those feeling sick and having specific lab tests suggesting sickness and probably Hiv , surely proving sometimes HIV can rarely be , a multifacited medical search for diagnosis . I presume you all have had multiple RNA's ,DNA'S,CBC's and T-Cell subsets and NOT just relying on antiboby tests ? There is not an HIV expert worth his credentials that cannot find Hiv these days , there are some specialized tests besides all the popular ones . I am 13 months from possible exposure (31 different kinds of tests ---mostly varied antibody tests : instant and labs,though 9 different other tests that do not count on antibodys ) , with symptoms that have never presented themselves before ---until after this exposure (?) I go next week on a trip to one of the best in the country ,then that's it ! I come back knowingly positive or definitively negative . You all have compelling symptoms . I am curious though , JER2 : What exactly was dr. Bob's answer to your question and CD4/CD8 ratio ? ( Can you give date and title of your question ) I assume , once again you guys have had multiple DIFFERENT kinds of tests ? To the forum guys , you are 98% of the time correct , but there are medical anomalies ,even Dr. Bob allows for them ,don't you see the facts of their exposures and telling lab symptoms and have any questioning ???

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red32
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Reged: 04/10/11
Posts: 10
Re: Seronegative & Other non-antibody tests..? new
      #255721 - 05/17/11 10:27 PM

my self I had 20 antibody 4th generation, 1 viral load, 1 naat, 1 DNA PCR. all negative till 6 months, DR bob told me that he think that I do not have HIV, but he stress that I can not wohoo, yet, as I have those symtomes, and significan exposure, he think that my ID should order further tests, but when showing Dr Bob response to my ID he told me that he have no Idea about what further HIV test that could be done, All that he an tell me, is that I should keep testing periodically and wait when it will show in test, I hope that will not show untill I have some major OI.

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crabmanModerator
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Reged: 03/10/11
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Re: Seronegative & Other non-antibody tests..? new
      #255722 - 05/17/11 11:48 PM

OMG save the children the crazies have taken over taken over the board again.

You people just need to start your own web site.

"NO ONE INCLUDING MY DOCTORS BELIEVE I HAVE HIV, BUT I KNOW I DO."

Go start your own website to complain how ppl just don't want to believe that all your negative tests are wrong.

ROFLMA. Losers.


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shwmeproff
Member

Reged: 04/11/11
Posts: 20
Re: Seronegative & Other non-antibody tests..? new
      #255725 - 05/18/11 12:06 AM

Hey Red 32 , is it still the case that your girlfriend has exacting symptoms and her still testing negative ? Your "infector" was confirmed positive through standard tests right ? So it can't be divergent strain . You should go to the archives find the listing for the organization of Hiv specialists(Something like that ...? ) , get one close by and go. Besides Western Blot and a repeat RNA ,there's bDNA for Hiv RNA, Reverse transcription in situ PCR , PERT (Product enhanced reverse transcriptase) that looks for porcine endogenous retroviruses ,Plasma samples sent for resistance testing . SEE ; "Your very creative use of resistenance testing" April 28, 2004 Dr. Conway .
Also in the search bar enter Dr Conway hiv testing , he's a great Hiv doctor with a excellent way of making the complex understandable . if your doctor is puzzled by any of this --FIRE HIM ! Stay in touch !!!

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Brickwall
Regular

Reged: 05/08/11
Posts: 32
Re: Seronegative but infected people new
      #255730 - 05/18/11 04:44 AM

Do as I did!

Go to a good psychiatrist, tell your story and show your symptoms. At least in Europe they are doctors with medical knowledge as well.

He told me that there was no way that my symptoms could be of caused by psychosomatic stress..

Almost six months since risk, severe symptoms with CD4 approx 360.. numereous tests inkl PCR RNA and DNA..

I think the tone is quite hard.. everyone please relax, we all have the same goal; to live a long and healthy life (hiv neg or hiv pos)..

Close your eyes imagine that there are people out there with HIV and even AIDS that is not diagnosed and do not get treatment. Even though they sooner or later seroconvert, image the suffering they have to endure for months..


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bartlebyAdministrator
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Reged: 01/19/10
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Re: Seronegative but infected people new
      #255737 - 05/18/11 01:10 PM

that's not how it works. today's HIV tests are extremely sensitive, with an accuracy over 99%. that means it's a lot more likely to turn up false positives than it is to turn up false negatives, since they are extra sensitive. which is why whenever you test positive, they test again to confirm. not to mention, the accuracy grows exponentially the more you test.

so when worried wells come on here with dozens of negative test results, not just antibody tests, but also RNA/DNA tests, what do you expect? and i've been here long enough to know that everyone thinks they are special, with some new undetectable strain of the virus. they'll dismiss all evidence that proves they are negative, ignore all the experts and doctors who tell them they are negative. and they'll seek out anyone and anything on the internet to support their irrational belief that they have HIV despite many, many negative test results.

we're here to help talk sense into you, not to debate about symptoms, accuracy of tests or existence of undetectable strains. if you want to waste your time and money searching for a virus you've convinced yourself you have, that's up to you. the advice here remains the same. stop looking. multiple negative test results well outside the window period means you're negative.

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bartlebyAdministrator
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Re: srchanfrans43, SRCHFRANS34, proffinpudding new
      #255740 - 05/18/11 01:40 PM

hey srchanfrans43, or SRCHFRANS34, or proffinpudding, or Bannedfrbeliefs or whatever name you're using nowadays. you keep coming back here looking for vindication, but have you tested positive yet? how many tests are you up to now? last time we spoke, you were up to 31 tests in 49 weeks. i'm not even sure anymore because in your original post from two years ago you had already been testing frequently, up to eight months after possible exposure. all negative.

and then you started over again last year in this post asking about unprotected insertive oral sex, which still has a per-act risk estimate of 0.5 out of 10,000 exposures. still, i know you're looking for people who have tested positive after six months because you think you will be one of them. but how long will you continue to test until you give up? one more year? two? three? never? you have to stop testing at some point.

also, you should read this recent response to your thread from a couple months ago where you wanted to essentially brand everyone who had HIV by putting them on a government list, when you said here, "Seriously, do you think less democratic countries , or even communities here would not at some point make lists available of those infected the way sex offenders are listed."

you also had declared a permanent log out. but you just couldn't help yourself.

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bartlebyAdministrator
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Re: Seronegative but infected people new
      #255742 - 05/18/11 02:22 PM

please show me this post where Dr. Bob tells you to continue testing after six months of negative test results. let's revisit you case for a moment and clarify. you had unprotected oral and a broken condom during sex with another woman when you and your wife were on a break. you later found out she was positive and then thought for sure you had contracted the virus.

However, you've taken multiple tests, "20 antibody 4th generation, 1 viral load, 1 naat, 1 DNA PCR. all negative till 6 months." even your wife has tested negative multiple times.

that's about as conclusive as it gets. sure, the woman you slept with was positive. and you were exposed. it doesn't guarantee infection. you don't have HIV. do yourself and your wife a favor and stop looking. reading unconfirmed reports about people seroconverting after six months does not prove you are positive.

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kicker
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Reged: 10/25/10
Posts: 1131
Loc: GA, USA
Re: Seronegative but infected people new
      #255744 - 05/18/11 02:53 PM

I've been racking my brain trying to figure out a way to simply put this into every day terms so that everyone could understand. The fact of the matter is if you are lacking basic biology knowledge it's a rather unimaginably complex issue to understand and to grasp. So I think I can give it a go and get this as basic as what you would tell a freshman high school student.


Virus have one goal and that is to replicate. They are on the very edge of what science considers life, because they need a host cell to reproduce and can not reproduce on their own. HIV has RNA not DNA. RNA is needed for DNA to exist, but you can not replicate RNA without DNA.

Any life on this planet has to have a reason to change. Changes don't happen "just because". All mutations are the result of the life form trying to succeed at its ultimate goal which is to reproduce. Mutations occur as a result of an external factor such as food, water, and climate (but not limited to) to force change or see extinction. Although mutations happen rapidly when you are talking about millions of copies being made, mutations are fragile. They rely on the environment/ external factors to remain the same. If those external factors do not remain the same, the mutation is discarded and any creature holding that mutation dies off. (If you need an example of this fact look at climate change, the dinosaurs, etc).

Mutations do not happen in leaps at least not the ones that stick around for a long time. It took SIV 32,000+ years to infect humans and turn into HIV. To think that there weren't billions and billions of mutations tried before that would be insane, but it took that long to actually achieve the desired effect and to hop species.

Ok now a little health 101:

You're body has a runny nose because it recognizes a contagion. You produce a fever because your body knows that most biological processes happen within the human body at temperatures at or below 98.6 degrees. That includes virus replication. Without antibodies being produced you would not have symptoms. You're body wouldn't know you had a contagion and it would continue on as normal without any "runny nose" or the such. The contagion would be allowed to reproduce and would exhaust its energy source (YOU) and you die quickly without even a sniffle, because viruses reproduce in the millions in a pop. They just don't have one baby or may if your Kate 8 they have millions.

Ok now a little HIV 101.5

HIV goes after CD4 cells, the same cells that help produce antibodies. HIV counts on the fact of being recognized by the immune system as a contagion so that the immune system sends out the CD4 cells to attack it. Little does the body know it's an ambush. The reason for the ambush is that the HIV virus needs the cd4 cells to reproduce. Remember from above the biology lesson that stated all creatures have the ultimate goal of reproducing? So comes the question why would it want to hide from the very cells it's trying to find?

Ok so let's put this all together:

Viruses use RNA, which we have tests to find. They can not reproduce without DNA. So they need to be able to infect cells. In the case of HIV; they prefer cd4 cells. CD4 cells by nature produce antibodies to any foreign body they come across. Thus causing a biological response throughout the human body also known as symptoms.

Mutations only happen when there are external factors that prevent or reduce the replication of a species. Being tests are not by any stretch of the imagination preventing or reducing the replication there is no need to have a mutation to hide from them. IF that is difficult to understand think of it this way. Humans don't mutate because a dust mite lands on a piece of our clothing. There is no reason. A mutation that would prevent detection by today's tests would in fact make the virus useless in humans. Thus ensuring the termination of the virus. Since we know it's goal is to replicate that would be a suicide run for the virus.

On the other hand you see mutations to HIV for medications because the medications prohibit the viruses goal to replicate. So here medications are in fact causing a direct cause and effect.

A virus that would be undetectable to RNA, DNA, and antibodies would be on the fast track to extinction. Being it needs RNA to spread its genetic make up, DNA to replicate it, and antibodies in this case to infect to start the process all over again.

So using your own logic and the facts of life, you have nothing to worry about. Your "HIV strain" will kill itself and you will be cured.

This is why the articles you mention said that they were laughed out of the room. It goes against every fiber of life and what we know of this virus. Is it theoretically possible. Absolutely, I'm a big enough person to know that it is possible. Would it mean the extinction of the species (HIV in this case)? ABSOLUTELY. Would be a extremely effective cure. Mutate itself right out existence. Has it happened before yes it has in more complex life, has it happened over the course of a few decades, NO it takes hundreds if not thousands if not hundred of thousands of years for that to happen. Or a very large asteroid.

Hopefully I haven't been to technical I realize it's a lot of facts and complex ideas. Not like a virus mutation that avoids detection by looking for the very things that give it life which utilizes ignorance and theoretical ideas, and conjuncture to hype an idea that has no merit when tested in the real world of facts and science.







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red32
Member

Reged: 04/10/11
Posts: 10
Re: Seronegative but infected people new
      #255746 - 05/18/11 03:28 PM

Thanks very much kicker for this this very interesting thought, you mention that because of stain the virus can mutate, that’s right, we know too that there is a population of virus infecting host, the main dominant strain, and the less dominant, marginal strain, so when the person test positive, they carry a resistant test, for the dominant strain, so it is suppressed by medication, thus, it will be no more dominant strain, and the marginal strain in the infectious population immerge, even as you said some mutation can occurs, even some times in the highly conserver area of the RNA sequence, that why, now Abbot real time and Roch Taqman version 2 are looking for Two conserved sequence, not only one. Saying that, so if you are exposed to HIV + person on medication, you have chance to be infected with a strain enough divergent from the main strain that tested positive in the test before medication, so you can be exposed to HIV+ person on medication that supress his main strain, and have a divergent strain, former marginal starin . that may not test positive in test, if too far divergent.
Please Correct me if I am wrong (and I hope I AM).




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