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HIV Transmission and Education >> Am I Infected?

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supernervousguy
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Reged: 04/02/11
Posts: 12
Conflicting diagnosis, please advise!
      #255064 - 04/02/11 08:17 AM

I know this topic has been endlessly discussed, however I am confused and conflicted by my two doctors. Here is what happened:

Just over a month and two weeks ago I went to a hostess lounge(sort of sleazy one) with my clients. Each one of us was paired with a girl and the girls continuously poured whisky for us the entire night. I french kissed my girl about three times, sort of briefly. There was one moment where she filled her mouth with whisky and tried to serve it to me mouth to mouth which didn't quite work out and made a mess. Then at the end of the night she lifted her shirt and I sucked on her breast for a minute or so. That was my only contact, no intercourse, no drugs, nothing more than that.

Now, granted, I don't have the best teeth, and I may have had a tiny sore in the far back of my mouth at the time, like a cold sore, very small, probably not bleeding. I went for an HIV AB(?) test at 2.5 weeks and my doctor told me there is a real risk and I should retest at 3 months to be sure. That test result was negative. What he told me obviously scared me. So I patiently waited a month before giving in and going to a clinic that specializes in HIV testing. The doctor there gave me the Oraquick oral test which came back negative. I told her what happened and she said I basically have nothing to worry about, that I have next to zero risk and should forget about it. This was in light of the fact that I had a sore throat for a week which turned into a couch in the second week, which now, one month two weeks later is a little bit of a cough that is definitely disappearing and a tiny remnant of a sore throat.

This left me torn in half. Who do I trust? To make it worse, I went to a third clinic today, at one month two weeks, but just to consult the doctor. The doctor said he agrees with both. He said that I probably have nothing to worry about, however, there is a potential risk if there was any blood, even a tiny amount in either of our mouthes. He said even if a tiny, microscopic amount of that blood passed in through that tiny cold sore in the back of my mouth, that there is a chance.

So, should I just wait it out to three months and get a test, or get another test now at 1 month 2 weeks, or just try to move on and forget about it?

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kicker
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Re: Conflicting diagnosis, please advise! new
      #255065 - 04/02/11 11:20 AM

Your risk of infection is nil given your story of events. Saliva does not transmit the virus, it actually acts as a barrier. Add to it the whiskey that acts like an antiseptic. Unless she was lactating (which would be gross, but everyone has their fetishes) or gushing blood from her mouth (would've noticed the red vampire teeth) then you would have cause for concern. Otherwise forget about it.

Your first doctor was probably uninformed or trying to scare you into a more moral stance. The HIV specialist is the one to listen to. Your cough and sore throat sound like a post nasal drip to me and it being Spring well that will happen.

Err on the side of caution, take the three month test when it comes around, but forget about it till then. It won't hurt anything, but believe me you had no risk of anything but an empty wallet from this encounter.

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supernervousguy
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Re: Conflicting diagnosis, please advise! new
      #255066 - 04/02/11 11:28 AM

Thanks for the advice. I've just felt horrible since the event, and obviously I'm noticing every tiny thing which makes me more worried.

One other conflicting thing I've noticed on these forums and many other sites, is how many people say deep kissing holds the same almost non-existent risk as oral sex. Yet when you search for people in these and other forums who contracted it via oral sex(as it often seems to be placed in the same category as french/deep kissing), there are many cases. Of course, oddly when you search to find anyone who contracted it solely from deep/french kissing, there are none beyond that same possible case study the CDC reported on. That of course makes me wonder if it actually is on the same risk level?

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kicker
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Re: Conflicting diagnosis, please advise! new
      #255067 - 04/02/11 11:39 AM

People lie and some of them want to believe they are innocent victims. Somehow they believe that if they say it was from oral that it's more acceptable to have gotten it. Let's face it, oral sex is seen as trivial as kissing in society today compared to vaginal or anal sex.

I've read stories where people swear they got it from dry humping.

It's caused by the stigma that still surrounds the illness. People think there are acceptable ways of catching it (well more acceptable than others where they are a victim) and unacceptable ways of catching it. Which is ridiculous being we all catch colds and we don't make excuses on how we got it. It's the same thing.

I've said it before and I will say it again there is no unacceptable way of catching HIV.

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supernervousguy
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Re: Conflicting diagnosis, please advise! new
      #255068 - 04/02/11 12:13 PM

Thanks, I'm just a very analytical guy. I've been thinking about this since the day after it happened and the regret has me digging hard through every resource online to find any relevant information. I've ready nearly every article in existence on the web and much of it is repetition of the same gray area analysis, mostly asserting no risk or laying out details that would involve cuts or wounds in the mouth. I assumed that if anyone ever did receive it from tongue/french/deep or whatever people want to call it kissing, then they would probably be eager to jump into these forums and dispel the constant talk about it's almost non-existent risk. Or at least I hope that is the case.

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kicker
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Re: Conflicting diagnosis, please advise! new
      #255070 - 04/02/11 01:22 PM

I too am very analytical and extremely logical and believe me that there are tons of posts, reports, and the such that are absolutely false or misleading. The problem is there is no peer review for anything posted to the internet by the average user. Be very careful not to get sucked in by the "hype". Especially with so called symptoms. I saw a great report by a national accredited health org that stated that over 6 million people a year report symptoms in the ER alone in the US that some would have you believe are only HIV ARS related. Out of those 6 million only 40,000 new case of HIV infection are confirmed each year, most of which is discovered with random testing of individuals that had no symptoms.

Taking those numbers you have a 0.06% chance of any symptom you may think you have or experience to actually being related to ARS and or HIV.

Just to give you an idea of that number here are other risk factors that are greater:

Chances of getting hit by lighting 1/750,000
Odds of getting into a fatal car wreck 1 in about 19,000
Odds of getting cancer (general no specific kind) 1 in 6

So you see having symptoms is not an indicator of infection from HIV when given those numbers. And according to some conservative numbers the chance of being infected by HIV through SEX and I stress the word SEX which is full blown intercourse is about 1 in 90,000.

Also the CDC does not say that transmission from oral gratification by nipple sucking or kissing is a mode of transmission. It only cautions against oral and parts below the belt as being possible transmitters.



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supernervousguy
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Re: Conflicting diagnosis, please advise! new
      #255071 - 04/02/11 01:46 PM

Thanks! This has to be the most comprehensive answer I've got since I started my search for answers. Much appreciated. I guess there is an element of randomness to it all, but I suppose that's to be expected from life.

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kicker
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Re: Conflicting diagnosis, please advise! new
      #255072 - 04/02/11 02:02 PM

Well you find what you seek I would consider it to be more bias than random. And by bias I mean that if you believe it to be one thing you will find information to support your claim rather than disprove it. Ah the human condition I'm right till I prove you wrong. Lol.

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supernervousguy
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Re: Conflicting diagnosis, please advise! new
      #255123 - 04/05/11 12:32 PM

Well, just a follow up... I went in to the hospital to get some medicine for this obnoxious cough and sore throat. Just for the heck of it I decided to run my tale of woe by the doctor and see what his opinion was. By the way, I did get another test at 6 weeks, the finger prick 20 minute one, negative.

He was very nice and helped me outline it all:

- He said there have actually been 3 reported cases of transmission this way, but each one was under extreme conditions
- At least a shot glass full of blood would have to be involved for any risk of transmission to occur
- There is a risk, but it is a negligible one.
- Statistically I have a better chance of dying in a car accident or getting hit by lightning than getting HIV in this manner
- Test at 3 months for peace of mind
- The 6 week test is 95% conclusive in his professional opinion

Of course, that got me digging around to see if anyone's reported into the forums who may have tested negative at 6 weeks, then positive at 3 months. Couldn't find any reports... Found some info on how the U.K., France, and several States in the U.S. have decided that 6 weeks is conclusive and 3 months is not necessary. That point has been argued hard on medhelp.com where the moderators diligently stick to the 3 month rule.

All said and done, nothing seems to be changing the fact that I still feel like crap and I'm still overanalyzing my body and feeling generally depressed about all of this. I will never put myself in this stupid situation again. I should become a monk after this.

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kicker
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Re: Conflicting diagnosis, please advise! new
      #255124 - 04/05/11 12:38 PM

That's amazing now if only someone would have told you the same thing before....hmmmm.

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supernervousguy
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Re: Conflicting diagnosis, please advise! new
      #255125 - 04/05/11 01:08 PM

I know. I've spoke with four different doctors and each one had a different opinion on the matter. I get it that I had a low if not non-existent exposure, but I figured/hoped at least the professionals would agree on something and give me a consistent diagnosis. Especially the specifics, like how much blood, in theory, would be required. It went from just a few molecules of blood to a shot glass of blood.

Ugh, I will get a proper test at 3 months, one of the tests where they take a week to get me answers, and then go back to living a normal life. I think the worrying and anxiety have already done a good job shaving 10 years off my life at it is. I'm sure I'm not the only one going through this.

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bartlebyAdministrator
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Re: Conflicting diagnosis, please advise! new
      #255157 - 04/06/11 04:17 PM

you're certainly not the only one going through this, and each time it's happened, results have come back negative. kissing and sucking on breasts is not even on the spectrum of HIV risks you should be concerned about. no risk, not even a little.

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supernervousguy
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Reged: 04/02/11
Posts: 12
Re: Conflicting diagnosis, please advise! new
      #255168 - 04/07/11 08:21 PM

Thanks for that, I've been reading these forums for weeks now, thoroughly. I am guessing that all the people who posted their deep kissing questions, if they did test positive from that experience they would surely return to these forums to debunk the perception that it's no risk. I'm convinced as well that it's no risk, but still, I honestly have been feeling fairly awful mentally and physically for weeks now. It's a tough one to shake. A risk is a risk, right? I've become over analytical... I don't have good teeth, I have receding gums which, from time to time, bleed a tiny bit, but just a tiny, tiny bit... I recall she had bad breath, I've tried so hard to recreate the scene in my head. I didn't taste blood, but I was drinking heavily, and smoking a little, I think we only played with our tongues in terms of the type of kissing... One other forum flatly denies there being any risk at all with deep or french kissing, I just hope this chronic cough of mine going on three weeks is nothing...

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