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Anonymous
Unregistered

Condoms
      #210338 - 10/05/06 03:22 AM

Well I practice safe sex all the time but now I am giving it up altogether. Screw it ,nothing is safe enough for me anymore. Condoms are the best but not as safe as I thought. Damn, this virus!!!!!! Condoms even when used 100% safe seem to not give you 100% protection. I guess I need 100% no risk but that's me. Fuck it I'm pissed I am doomed to no sex life. Just my luck. I also like more than one so that is even more stress.

It's late, I'm going to bed.

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Condoms new
      #210344 - 10/05/06 05:46 AM

hey...
well to start with, condoms are 99.99% safe, if used correctly. like you, i am so fucking afraid of getting something, anything, stds, rash, etc. so, i do wear more than one condom always, for the last 20 years. the only breakage i had with condoms , and got really scared was when i was using just one. i know they say, double bagging is the worst, but knock on wood, has not happens yet.

i have been with hiv poz guys, an i have told them i use more than one, and they are ok with it, so far i have not contract it anything, and hope i never will.

do not give up on using them, use 3 if that makes you feel safer(i do), but going bare is 200% risky.

hand jobs, blow jobs, kissing etc, is ok with out protection to certain degree, so do not ruin your sex life with worries, just put a rubber on that baby and stick it in where you like...but always, always use protection and water based lube.
i hope this help.

post you addy if you want me to email you instead.


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AIDS2HIV
Unregistered

Post deleted by Becky new
      #210345 - 10/05/06 05:47 AM



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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Condoms new
      #210599 - 10/05/06 05:30 PM

So who are you? Mr. expert. I am not spreading fear dumb shit I just happen to know what I am talking about. I don't want any risk that's my call. condom are the best avalible but NOT 100%. Now you stop speading B/S.

Condom Effectiveness

Condoms are effective because they block contact with body fluids that cause pregnancy and sexually transmitted infection. Most reports of condom failure are the result of inconsistent or incorrect use, not breakage (Macaluso, et al., 1999). A recent study of college students found that condom use errors were very common — 40 percent of the young men surveyed reported that, within the previous three months, they had not left space for ejaculate at the tip of a condom, and 15 percent had taken a condom off before completing intercourse (Crosby, et al., 2002). In the U.S., the actual breakage rate is a low two per 100 condoms (CDC, 1998). High failure rates in some studies occur because many people lie about contraceptive use to shift the responsibility for an unintended pregnancy to a "faulty" contraceptive. Such over-reporting artificially inflates failure rates (Trussell, 1998).



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AIDS2HIV
Unregistered

Post deleted by Becky new
      #210619 - 10/05/06 08:20 PM



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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Condoms new
      #210621 - 10/05/06 08:52 PM

Actually neither condom manuf. or the CDC say that condom use is 100% effective. No one does. As you have said to people yourself. Nothing in life is ever 100%. Also if you are going to source a study to support your position, then at least give the source link, or website the information can be found, otherwise it's just a bunch of hot air that is unsubstaniated. I also challenge you to source links that show scientifically that proper condom use is 100%. You won't find a SINGLE reputable, scientific source that states that.

The orginial poster's position is exteme. After all he has a better chance of getting in a car accident, but the choice of risk that one is willing to take is strictly up to that person. Just because a person chooses not to take any risk and abstain doesn't make it a wrong thing to do for that person. Would you riduclue two people waiting until after marriage to have sex?

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AIDS2HIV
Unregistered

Post deleted by Becky new
      #210624 - 10/05/06 09:07 PM



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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Condoms
      #210686 - 10/06/06 08:24 AM

Man you are a real "dickhead'. what ,you want to kick ass because someone has a different opinion than you. You want their names and address so you can show up at their door and assult & batter them? Now you want others to come to your bull shit site for info that you think is correct; man you are a nut case.
The fact is nothing is 100% safe and most people know that and that was the intent of my post. The post I cut was from Dr. Bob's site from planned parenthood, dickhead. It has been know for years that condoms even when used correctly have on occation not prevented pregnancies.

My post was that nothing is 100% and I felt bad about it. That's my call,dickhead. All should use them all the time however like anything else there is a minimal risk. Even a dickhead like you should know that.
BTW I would probably be able to kick your ass if you indeed showed up at my door.

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Condoms new
      #210692 - 10/06/06 09:44 AM

Opinions are like assholes eveyone has one. If you want to live your life like a retard then do it on your own time. Medical science says something else but I guess you are smarter than that community too.

Go climb under a rock. I hear a meteor shower is comin.....

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Condoms new
      #210695 - 10/06/06 09:56 AM

Hmmmm Now let's see, if two out of 100 can become pregant with proper use that must mean sperm get in somehow. If sperm can get in so can HIV. So you hero's have all got your little dicks up tight from a innocent post. You are mean people who can only shout others down. You now want to fight? Gee just what everone wnats is to get into a blood fight with an HIV POZ person. What nuts you are. BTW are those your two little pussy cats in your piture? get waht a real man, I bet your a woman both of you. have a nice day you have taken this post to the gutter just like they do at Aidsmed. Your intolorent little mean people.


Condoms as Birth Control

Condoms are an effective, inexpensive form of birth control. Of 100 women whose partners use condoms inconsistently or imperfectly, 15 will become pregnant in the first year of use. Only two will become pregnant if condoms are used perfectly (Trussell, et al., on press). Unlike many other forms of birth control, condoms also protect against sexually transmitted infection. Additional advantages of condoms as birth control include: low cost, easy access, simple disposal, minimal side effects, and longer-lasting sex play. Using condoms can also enhance sexual pleasure by reducing anxieties about the risk of infection and pregnancy (Warner & Hatcher, 1998).



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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Condoms
      #210705 - 10/06/06 10:26 AM

Florida and A2H both you decided the best course of action was to attack people, calling them names and threatening them. All because one person said, condoms are not 100% effective. That is the truth. His post was about the level of risk HE felt comfortable with and both of you jumped on him. He was NOT unreasonable.

Unreasonable would have been if he said he refused to work with someone because they have HIV.

Unreasonable would be if he was pushing a friend to break up with someone because the 'someone' was HIV+

Unreasonable would be if the poster refused to let children see their other parent because of HIV.

I completely understand the desire to get people to understand that there is no need to fear people with HIV. I know very well the uphill battle to get people to accept us and treat us as human beings. I get it.

But I also can understand that the knowledge that condons work 99% of the time leaves that 1% doubt that can be unnerving. Many of those sero-discordant couples you want to put out on parade had issues in the beginning about having sex. We see those issues arise on this board and others.

I also know that from a prevention side, we need to keep a bit of fear about HIV. It's lack of fear that brings on the complacency which is the cause for the new figures for new infections, which are not very encouraging.

As much as any of us would like to forget. We do harbor a deadly disease. You know that A2H. You're fighting for your very life as we write. Is it unreasonable to find in the world that for some people the risk even with a condom is too great. I don't think so.

It's a fine line to walk between teaching people that HIV is not easily transmitted and that for general contact and most sex acts it's a non-issue. But if it was a completely non-issue, non of us would be living with it today. I don't want people to be scared of me. And if one day I'm in a relationship with an HIV- person, I'll know they really do care if they can get over that little bit of fear, I imagine every HIV- person has about sex at first. If they can't, well I won't crucify them.

Being HIV+ doesn't mean you have to be bullies when dealing with HIV- people and their fears. You have the option of just not answering posts you disagree with, especially, if your personal lives are putting so much stress on you that all you can do is lash out, calling people names and threatening them and being completely disagreeable.

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Condoms new
      #210714 - 10/06/06 11:05 AM

Because I choose to remain anon does not mean I spread mis-information. It's a cheap shot to try and win your side on that point, who I am does not change the information.

You and A2H are quick to say that condoms provide 100 effective protection, quick to say studies (well then, maybe one, from project inform...maybe) but neither of you are so quick to supply source links to this information. You won't find Dr. Bob saying that. You won't find the CDC saying that. They have cases of documentation. You won't find the GMHC saying that. You won't find The Body saying that. You won't find AIDSMEDS saying that. You won't find researchers saying that. It would be irresponsible to lead people to believe that condom use is effective 100% of the time.

I guess this also means that you are willing and able to take apart posters that have posted from time to time that they are infected and always used condoms. I suppose you are ready to take on the medical community that recommends anyone sexually active, even using condoms should be tested for HIV and other STDs once a year as part of their normal health routine. Now why would they say that if condoms are COMPLETELY effective?


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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Condoms
      #210843 - 10/07/06 03:34 AM

Thanks for the interresting post Anon. These two [aids2,fla]
really have gone off about my post. I guess they just can't stand the idea of common sense. All I ever said as you pointed out was that for ME condoms didn't give ME 100% protection.
As far as their nonsense posts condoms have not changed at all since 1997 so the date of that artical is meaningless..I also said that is was from Dr. Bob who they love.
FLA says it taked about pregnacies;well duhhh as I said that means sperm got in therefore HIV cann as well. maybe they thing the stork brings babies.
These two are really strange. They seem to want to get a data base of peoples email addresses and names. I would watch out for them.
I think they both are women by their post.
Agin, use condoms its the best there is besides abstanance.


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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Condoms new
      #210871 - 10/07/06 10:02 AM

You just don’t get it Florida. This isn’t really an issue about the difference between 99% and 100% effective. I imagine you fight so hard for 100% because that helps to ease your mind about the risk for your partner. That would seem to be a normal response. It shows you are a caring person and you do worry about your partners health. But whether you want to admit it or not, each time you have sex, your partner is at risk, even if it’s infinitesimal, the risk is present.

I’m not trying to perpetuate the stigma. I live with it. I fight it. However I don’t believe in abandoning science and common sense and telling half truths in the rush to dispel the stigma. If I lie and tell people that condoms are 100% effective and that if they always use condoms, they will never, ever get HIV, I lose credibility when I tell people that they will never, ever get HIV from casual contact with me or they won’t get infected from receiving oral. Prevention starts with complete honesty.

The statement, condoms are not completely 100% effective all the time, IS a true statement.

No amount of posting of political diatribes, or statements couched with ‘reduces’, ‘significantly’ or ‘highly’ changes that statement. But like I said, you don’t get it. This isn’t about how effective condoms are or are not. It’s about how people feel about risks. What their comfort level is. My problem with you and A2H is that you both seem to take it as a personal insult that someone honestly says. “It’s more risk than I feel comfortable with”. You both are going to have to realize that some people feel this way, and it’s OK. This poster isn’t being HIV-phobic. He’s not worried about HIV on the door handle. He’s worried about HIV transmission during sex. He KNOWS it’s an extremely low risk. But he also KNOWS it’s not ‘no risk’.

That’s what this thread was really about. We aren’t talking about the inane such as HIV in food, or on the door knob. We’re talking about sex, which carries a risk of transmission. What level of risk people feel comfortable with. Some don’t want any risk. Others are comfortable with small risks, and still others just don’t care.

As I said, the original poster’s position is a bit extreme, but the fact of the matter is that HIV is STILL an incurable and many times deadly disease. It’s not unreasonable for someone to decide any risk, how no matter how small, is too great for them personally.

Even your sources #1 and #2, do not state that condoms are 100% effective. I agree with what they do say that pushing condom use and needle exchange programs are HIGHLY EFFECTIVE AT REDUCING THE RISK OF TRANMSSION. Highly Effective, NOT COMPLETELY EFFECTIVE.

Not sure why you bothered to bring in the politics. The effectiveness of condoms hasn’t been set by politics, that 99% comes from science. Other than the first poster that plans to abstain, no one says anyone should swear off sex unless it’s what they are comfortable with. I’m no Bush fan and I don’t believe in his abstinence only policy, but just as I don’t want his policies shoved down my throat, I don’t plan to shove my opinions about comfort and risk levels down anyone else’s throat by declaring them HIV-phobic just because they have discomfort over that 1%.


However I do like this quote from the article, makes my point.

“…HIV prevention ought to arm people with useful information FROM WHICH THEY CAN MAKE THEIR OWN JUDGEMENT ABOUT WHAT RISKS TO TAKE.”
*****************************

However, it would seem that the author would like to make exceptions as to what he considers useful information.

******************************
Quotes such as these:

“You could call their strategy 'scared into using condoms every time until death.'

And

“stick to being a top in anal sex if you do not want to wear a condom;”

******************
have no place in a serious discussion about HIV prevention. Telling people to make sure they are the top if they don’t want to use condoms? There are documented cases of men becoming infected from insertive anal and vaginal sex. Tops do get infected.

Inspot’s sexual risk chart shows that HIV is a KNOWN risk for tops. It also does not say that condoms are 100%. Only that latex condoms ‘significantly reduces’ the risk.

http://www.inspot.org/std-info/sexual-risk.aspx?regionid=2&sitelvl=1

*****************************
GMAC

While they do say Latex condoms prevent HIV infection. They have in the staying SAFER tools. Not SAFE. Just SAFER. Also in the paragraph before they state

“it's more realistic to think of sex as a range of risks, from less risky to more risky.”

I don’t see the words NO RISK. Just less risky. I guess they might take into consideration that condoms break, thereby putting all condom use in the LESS risky category of SAFER sex.

It certainly isn’t because they hedge on the information, since they are quite clear here:

“There is absolutely no danger from casual contact with people with HIV.”

That’s absolute.

*********************
http://members.aol.com/gayinformation/safe.html

Condoms are reliable, if treated right.

Ah, the disclaimer again….if treated right. Besides the fact I’d place AOL Members information right up there with WebMd. Well meaning, but not always accurate.
************************

Now since you want to make this about the science and not about the emotional, which was the point.


From the NIH. - http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?p=Condom+effectiveness&fr=yfp-t-500&toggle=1&ei=UTF-8&u=www.niaid.nih.gov/dmid/stds/condomreport.pdf&w=condom+effectiveness&d=GHjt6SQ8NjgW&icp=1&.intl=us


“Conclusions on STDs Transmitted by Genital Secretions
The published data documenting effectiveness of the male condom were strongest for
HIV. The Panel concluded that, based on a meta-analysis of published studies “always”
users of the male condom significantly reduced the risk of HIV infection in men and
women”


*****note that they say SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED THE RISK. It does not say COMPLETELY ELIMINATES THE RISK.

*******************************************************
From Advocates for Youth - http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/PUBLICATIONS/factsheet/fscondom.pdf#search='Condom%20effectiveness'

“When used consistently and correctly latex condoms are highly effective in preventing the sexual transmission of HIV….”

******again, notice the words. HIGHLY EFFECTIVE. Not COMPLETELY EFFECTIVE.

**********************************
From Just Rubbers - http://www.justrubbers.com/info/studies.html

*****This mentions the study you all want to parade around as the reason you KNOW condoms are 100% effective. The sample of sero-discordant couples using the condoms correctly was only 24. Not a large sample to base conclusions upon.*******

Also notice that these studies suggest a 70-100% percent reduction. That 30% is a big number in terms of risk of infection
******************************
Numerous studies among sexually active peole have demonstrated that a properly used latex condom provides a high degree of protection against a variety of STDs, including HIV infection. The degree of protection that proper use of latex condoms provides against HIV transmission is most evident from studies of couples in which one member is infected with HIV and the other is not (i.e., "discordant couples"). Such studies suggest a 70 to 100 percent reduction in the risk of acquiring HIV infection in couples reporting consistent condom use. The extreme importance of using condoms consistently and correctly is emphasized by a study of 563 discordant couples in Europe. Among the 44 couples who used condoms inconsistently, 6 of the uninfected partners became infected. In contrast, among the 24 couples who reported consistent condom use, none of the uninfected partners became infected.

From UN Aids - http://unworkplace.unaids.org/UNAIDS/basics/condoms/effectiveness-of-condoms.shtml
An overwhelming body of evidence demonstrates that condoms are highly effective in preventing transmission of HIV. Correct and consistent condom use should give you a high degree of confidence in your ability to prevent HIV transmission.
************Again, not seeing unequivocal protection.
And on and on and on for pages. None say that condoms are 100% effective.

And a special note to the original poster:
“I think they both are women by their post.” WTF. Do you have issues with women? How do you know I’m not a woman?


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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Condoms new
      #210885 - 10/07/06 11:54 AM

Thanks again Anon ,you have stated my point exactly. That was all I was saying. This thread is very useful in as much as it does show how some will react to a simple thought outside of their comfort zone.
I am always puzzeled by the responce to anyone that advocates abstinence even if it pertains to themselves. Abstinence is just one tool to a health sex life, however when mentioned, it brings howels from the fringe. I guess it's really just a Bush hating thing.

The Gay community revoles around sex that's find but one would think each person would be allowed to decide for him self their level of risk.

You are well written and a great poster, keep up the good work.

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