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Still Afraid... What Do I Do?
#18980 - 07/07/01 01:57 PM
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I posted several days ago... one of the MANY questioners about the risk of kissing someone who MAY be HIV+. I have read all of the posts by Dr. Reznick and Mr. Kull and know that the chances of infection are not high.... (contact was not deep or prolonged, but open-mouthed and brief tongue-to-tongue contact twice -- a second or two). I have begun to wonder...."Was there blood in her mouth that I didn't know about?" She excused herself briefly and came back "all freshened up." What if she brushed her teeth while away... we shared one kiss afterwards. Can anyone related to these obsessive and terrifying thoughts. It was only two weeks ago, so testing not a good option for peace of mind. I think I have conviced myself that if I make it through the next two weeks without a major illness, I'll be able to forget about it. Does anyone have any advice? Please.
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*I* can relate to those worries. They are obsessive, all-consuming, terrifying...... and unnecessary.
I've had them. I'm practically over them. You should get over them too: * From any LOCAL authority I've been able to talk to, you're talking about the necessity of VISIBLE blood for the POSSIBILITY of risk to enter the picture. This is visible blood in the respect that you would see it on her lips, or on her teeth, etc. * You need to have an open, bleeding wound in/on your mouth. * Partner has to be HIV+ * Blood has to come in contact with your own open, bleeding wound in a "significant quantity." No, I don't know what that means either, but consider the probability that you'd SEE it before risk became more than theoretical. * IF the person is HIV+, their viral load has to be high enough for them to be infectious. * Then, if all of the above is true, you then have to be the one, single, all-by-yourself, first person-of-record to ever be infected by HIV transmission in this manner.
THINK ABOUT THIS AT LENGTH. You should feel better.
I did.
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I think a more important issue for you is to look into OCD behaviors / thinking. How long has this played a major role in your life? What will be next after you're negative? If simply kissing someone makes you this scared, what about shaking hands, touching people, etc.? Was there guilt associated with this kiss? You really need to look at these things in detail ...... therein lies the REAL issue of what is going on with you. Good luck.
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Dear Anonymous: Thanks for your response. I sense real caring in your suggestion. To be honest, I am sure that there is some OCD component to my fears. And yes... there is guilt. I am married. I talked to my wife and told her everything. Unfortunately, she is so incredulous that I could be so afraid over a kiss that she thinks there must be more to what happened. There isn't. I even went and found the shirt I was wearing that night (it had not been washed) to convince myself that there was no blood on it and found something all over the collar and shoulder. It must be make-up from the lap dancer rubbing her face against me. I even rubbed some of my wife's make-up on the shirt to simulate the stain and it looked similar. But it looked similar to blood, too. I remember the lady telling me that night that she had recently had pneumonia. Possibly AIDS related? Then I tell myself that it wouldn't matter anyway, because you don't get HIV from a kiss. Or can you? I am not nearly as afraid of HIV as I am of my wife not believing me should the "impossible" happen and leave thinking that I did more than that. I'm really screwed up! Do you have experience with OCD, either as a professional or as a patient? What treatments are available?
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First, I would try calling a psychologist in the area to seek a referral regarding OCD ..... that should get you off to a good start. Second, have there been other episodes that you've obsessed over (aside from this one). And third, there simply are not any documented cases of HIV transmission via kissing. You would literally have to be making out in "blood" from the both of you.
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I'm back from a much need vacation to Disney World...and back to the terrible world of those suffering from OCD (me included, but recovering).
Personally my friend, IF you get HIV from the incident you describe, then in fact you will make the HISTORY books and your "situation" will make you a star on every local and national talk show...they will probably have to re-write the CDC manual too.
You are aware that the one case that where they "THINK" this might have happened, was NEVER officially confirmed. Both parties, BOTH, (one more time) BOTH, parties had SEVERE bleeding of the GUMS WITH OPEN LESIONS...yes, just not BAD bleeding gums BUT OPEN lesions...one had an active case of herpes, with several open lesions. THEY ALSO HAD SEX and although they claimed protection, they STATED, they were not sure the "protection" was "complete" meaning did the condom hold up, was there exchange of fluids etc? THEY ALSO engaged in UNPROTECTED ORAL SEX...this didn't happen just once either...it happened many times as they were a couple. I don't have the actual reading from Medline right now...BUT I WILL FIND IT AND WILL POST IT BY Monday...I'm not making this up.
Now...once again, if you're this unlucky, you're going to die anyway from a meteor hitting you on the head at the same time you're getting struck by lightning...oh, and you'll be holding a winning lotto ticket too...this is how good your chances are.
We're not making fun of you, because right now you are scared, and the pain and fear is real...but please understand it's 100% irrational...yes NOT 99.9% but 100% irrational. Any MD will tell you the same thing. EVEN, and this is a "HUGE EVEN", she was HIV+ with a VL of, oh lets say, 1,000,000 copies...your chances would still be 0.001% in all reality...
Please, try to get some counseling, there is nothing bad about doing that...forgive yourself...and move on, because all the time you're are wasting, you can never get back.
You WILL get tested again, because you have OCD, but I can tell you with all my heart that IT IS UNNECESSARY and you WILL BE Negative.
Peace Shane
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PVS
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Guru
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Reged: 09/19/00
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I don't want to pre-empt Shane but he is right, there is more than more one possible mode of transmission in the "deep kissing" case. Here's an excerpt I pulled from the JAMA site:
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Although the exact route of transmission in this report cannot be determined, the most likely possibility is that the woman became infected through mucous membrane exposure to the man’s saliva that was contaminated by blood from his bleeding gums or exudate from undetected oral lesions. Such exposure may have occurred during "deep kissing"; the woman’s inflamed gingival mucosa, as indicated by her dental and medical records, might have been a contributing factor. Exposure to saliva uncontami-nated with blood is considered to be a rare mode of HIV transmission for at least five reasons: 1) saliva inhibits HIV-1 infectivity (4); 2) HIV is infrequently isolated from saliva (5); 3) none of the approximately 500,000 cases of AIDS reported to CDC have been attributed to exposure to saliva; 4) levels of HIV are low in the saliva of HIV-infected persons, even in the presence of periodontal disease (6); and 5) transmission of HIV in association with kissing has not been documented in studies of nonsexual household contacts of HIV-infected persons (7). However, rare bite-related instances of HIV transmission from exposure to saliva contaminated with HIV-infected blood have been reported (8,9).
Other exposures of the woman to the man’s blood or semen cannot be excluded. Although occasional instances of oral sex did not reportedly involve the exchange of semen or blood between the persons in this report, these routes of transmission cannot definitively be excluded. Sexual exposure through vaginal intercourse is a plausible mechanism of transmission for the case described in this report; however, other studies of couples in which one partner is HIV-infected and the other is not indicate that HIV transmission is rare when heterosexual couples use condoms consistently during vaginal intercourse (10). If a condom is not used correctly, it may slip off or break, thereby reducing its effectiveness as a barrier to HIV. However, for this case, both partners could not recall any instances of condom slippage or breakage during the time infection was likely to have occurred. In addition, although the shared use of a toothbrush or razor are theoretically plausible routes of transmission, the woman recalled that each event occurred only once, and she could not specify whether either event occurred during the period when transmission most likely occurred.
The findings of this investigation underscore the multiple routes by which exposure to infectious body fluids can occur among sexually intimate persons. Uninfected persons considering intimate relationships with persons known to be infected with HIV should be educated about the rare possibility of HIV transmission through mucous membrane exposures. Persons choosing to have sex with HIV-infected persons or persons with unknown HIV serostatus should correctly use latex condoms (for men) during each act of intercourse and should avoid any other exposure to potentially infectious body fluids, including blood, semen, or any other body fluid visibly contaminated with blood. --------------------------- There are other diseases easily transmitted through a kiss like mono. Rarer would be hepatitis and syphilis. I'll have to say that if kissing in any form transmitted HIV, we would have more cases of infected people reaching quite possibly in the millions.
Forgive yourself. Educate to empower yourself.
Cheers! PVS
PS..if your anxiety is getting to you, 900 mg of St. John's Wort might help. =)
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