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HIV Transmission and Education >> Am I Infected?

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jake_the_shake
All Star

Reged: 12/07/04
Posts: 98
Oral Sex
      #157299 - 07/15/05 12:22 PM

Hi there, there have been a bunch of oral (both ways) questions of late. Allow me to post a couple of things which corroborate what gman has been saying:

1) there are no undisputed cases of receptive oral (the person sucking) getting HIV

2) There are no undisputed cases of insertive oral sex (the person getting sucked) getting HIV.

We are 25 years into one most closely studied diseases in the history of mankind. Something like "oh, by the way, giving a blowjob will totally infect you" isn't likley to pop into the conciseness. Ever.

The San Fran clinic, which is in the trenches of this pandemic, lists the following as known STDs from performing oral sex on a man:

Gonnorhea, Herpes, Syphillus, Chlymidia and HPV (These are, with the exception of herpes and HPV, bacterial infections and therefore MUCH easier to pick up. get tested for these after about a week or two of possible contact. Or definitly if you have any symptoms)

Unknown risks are Hep B and HIV (know that Hep B, which is far, far more common and easily transmittable, can't even survive in the unforgiving conditions of the human mouth. The more fragile HIV doesn't stand a chance)

If it's not happening in San Francisco it's not happening to you.

2 recent studies corroborate this info, one in spain, the other in San Fran; they collected years or oral-sex data and found ZERO new HIV infections among serodiscordant couples.

So use a condom for anal and vaginal sex, don't shoot drugs, and don't travel back in time and receive a blood-transfusion prior to 1984.

All the bext JtS

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jake_the_shake
All Star

Reged: 12/07/04
Posts: 98
Re: Oral Sex new
      #157301 - 07/15/05 12:34 PM

two more things:

1) This speaks specifically to that assertion that oral accounts for 8% of new infections: In studies on simians where the subjects were FORCED to serconvert orally, they had less success than 8%

2) Enzymes in saliva block HIV infection: There is strong evidence that an enzyme in saliva prevents HIV from infecting lymphocytes (white blood cells vulnerable to HIV infection). One study mixed very high concentrations of HIV with ordinary saliva taken from 34 individuals, 25 of whom were HIV-negative. In 85% of the samples, HIV could not reproduce itself when incubated with saliva for up to 18 days.

It is important to bear in mind that the quantities of HIV used in this experiment were much, much higher than those found in any studies of viral load in semen or cervico-vaginal fluid. It is probably reasonable to assume that salivary enzymes would have an even greater effect on normal concentrations of HIV.

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SteveR
Unregistered

Re: Oral Sex new
      #157303 - 07/15/05 12:38 PM

Jake, I don't think you're correct on your first point. There have been documented infections via giving oral sex (sucking). There aren't a lot, because often people who do oral also do other things, and it can be hard to distinguish the act that produced an infection. But the risk is there, and most HIV docs will tell you they have a patient or two who say they were infected in this way. (That doesn't equal official documentation, but suggests that the possibility is there.) I believe RECEIVING oral (getting sucked) is pretty much risk-free;supposedly there's a "theoretical risk," but I know of no documented cases.

Obviously, if oral were a highly infectious practice, there would be a heck of a lot more infections out there. But it does carry a minimal risk.

I quote our old friends at the CDC:

Can I get HIV from oral sex?

Yes, it is possible for either partner to become infected with HIV through performing or receiving oral sex. There have been a few cases of HIV transmission from performing oral sex on a person infected with HIV. While no one knows exactly what the degree of risk is, evidence suggests that the risk is less than that of unprotected anal or vaginal sex.

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jake_the_shake
All Star

Reged: 12/07/04
Posts: 98
Re: Oral Sex new
      #157318 - 07/15/05 04:44 PM

I think we can agree that the CDC is a clearinghouse of health data and that it is one of the most conservatrive agencies in the world.

That being said, I don't want to argue with you - oral-receptive risk, while biologically plausible, is simply not happening in the real world.

Can it happen? Sure. Does it? It would seem, no. For every website one can find that says "anal, vaginal and sometimes oral." You can find empirecal evidence which states that, yes, while it would make sense that you can get it from oral, people just don't.

The most recent studies from Spain and California being the most compelling.

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spiritzone2
Grand Master

Reged: 06/24/05
Posts: 166
Loc: PORTLAND ROCKS !!
Re: Oral Sex new
      #157336 - 07/16/05 05:02 AM

well that's funny 'cause that is exactly how i got infected. Granted i had peridontal disease of the gums, but still: oh boy, jake, you sure know your stuff, eh?

--------------------
OUR FOCUS DETERMINES OUR REALITY.

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JoseAnonymous
Unregistered

Re: Oral Sex new
      #157345 - 07/16/05 07:51 AM

Question:
If u had oral sex whiel experiencing an outbreak of herpes. What are your chances then of contrating HIV? It was oral receptive and the HIV status of the other person is unknown. Should I seek PEP treatment?

Thanks,

Jose

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jake_the_shake
All Star

Reged: 12/07/04
Posts: 98
Re: Oral Sex new
      #157384 - 07/16/05 07:54 PM

has anyone ever noticed that all "evidence" of oral transmission exists in anecdotal accounts from the internet, while all evidence to the contrary has been compiled by teams of scientists?

Sorry spiritzone, you scare no one. take your evangelical foolishness back to bible belt - we deal in facts and empirical evidence around here.

Do you have a scientific or doctoral report? No? Than shut your grit-hatch and sit back down in your booth at Denny's - we're trying to stop a disease around here.

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SteveR
Unregistered

Re: Oral Sex new
      #157425 - 07/18/05 11:44 AM

I agree the chances are slim, and I agree the CDC is extremely conservative. But I think the consequences of touting HIV as absolutely risk-free are pretty serious, especially when there are numerous people out there who say they got infected that way. Spiritzone, for example -- your dismissive response to him just isn't fair. He knows what he has and hasn't done, and he has no reason to lie about it.

You're right that public-health statistics are more valuable than anecdotal evidence. But you're omitting the DOCUMENTED cases of infection -- which mean that public health workers have reviewed a reported case and talked to the participants and agree that oral sex was the only risk. Again, I leave you with words from the CDC:

Documented:

Although the risk is many times smaller than anal or vaginal sex, HIV has been transmitted to receptive partners through fellatio, even in cases when insertive partners didn't ejaculate ("cum").

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jake_the_shake
All Star

Reged: 12/07/04
Posts: 98
Re: Oral Sex new
      #157474 - 07/19/05 10:18 AM

incidentally, it's posts like this one:

http://www.thebody.com/cgi-bin/bbs/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=infected&Number=156920&page=5&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&vc=1

that make me dismissive of spiritzone, this is just mean (if that thread doesn't work, it's his response to a thread called "so scared" from a couple weeks go

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SteveR
Unregistered

Re: Oral Sex new
      #157480 - 07/19/05 10:34 AM

Well, you're right, he was unnecessarily harsh in that post -- and I haven't been reading this board for a really long time, so I'm not familiar with his overall tone or reliability. But if he was infected via oral sex, as he says, you can see why he'd be strident about it.

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SteveR
Unregistered

Re: Oral Sex -- oops new
      #157481 - 07/19/05 10:39 AM

Sorry -- meant to say "consequences of touting oral sex as risk-free," not "HIV." My bad.

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