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Ronnie
Unregistered

Faith versus Cocktails
      #11921 - 11/05/00 10:43 AM

I.ve been positive for 12 years, 4 years ago I started monitoring my bloodwork after my lover past away. My T-cell count was between 200-300 4 yrs later they finally dropped to 178 since July then to 132, then finally to 93 currently. Despite my doctors and some friends strong belief that I,m commiting my on form of suicide. I,ve not been convinced to do the drug cocktails. I did however give up drinking, and began working out a year and half ago. However thats when my #,s started going down below 200. Still I believe that taking the meds would be a constent reminder that something was wrong with me. But the doctors have done a pretty good job of that with there Full blown Aids diagonsis. I feel great and havn,t had an opportunistic infection and would like to here from others who understand or maybe experiencing the same situation as myself.



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Frederick
Unregistered

Re: Faith versus Cocktails new
      #12065 - 11/09/00 11:16 AM

Ronnie,Hi ,I have been HIV+ 12 years also, and have found a balance in taking some of the cocktails to increase my T-Cell and lower my virural load. I do not put my faith in the pills, but in the idea that their will soon be a cure and I am a test subject. Write me at Frederick@aol.com for we can talk more.





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JokesOnYou
Unregistered

Re: Faith versus Cocktails new
      #12089 - 11/09/00 06:50 PM

> I believe that taking the meds would be a constent reminder that something was wrong with me.

So instead you get your blood work done over and over and talk about your numbers online. You're right! That's a much better approach to not being reminded about things being wrong with you.




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John L
Unregistered

Re: Faith versus Cocktails new
      #12116 - 11/10/00 07:07 PM

I'd say you're real lucky that you haven't had your first OI yet. Keep your fingers crossed, and you may just keep coasting. I know one friend who's tested + 15 years ago, and is doing great, with no meds. But his CD4 count hasn't dropped like yours has. This little bugger hits us all differently. Take heed.
It's great that you started working out and eating better. Check out Dr. Jon Kaiser's book, Healing HIV. He suggests things like meditation, yoga, looking at the person as a whole (holistically), and, when necessary, using meds.
Sure, taking those meds each day are a reminder, but waiting until you end up in a hospital, and need IV drugs, or lose some of your eyesight (for ever), would be far worse. I've got friends who, having never taken antivirals, go down to undetectable, and t-cells jump up by the hundreds, often within months. I think they can afford to be a little more casual about their health than someone like what I'm hearing you sound like.
One important factor - find a GOOD doctor; one you can talk to, one who will listen, one who knows AIDS inside and out, and has many other patients with AIDS and HIV. And talk to other people with HIV and AIDS.
You'll make the right choices. We each do.



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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Faith versus Cocktails new
      #12227 - 11/13/00 09:14 PM

You know it's hard to accept that we all (if we are lucky) will grow old and have a sagging face and a sagging ass and not too many people will look at us as we pass. Just the facts of aging and no cutie, not Ricky Martin, nor Paul Newman will escape the inevitable consequences of growing older.

Similarly, if you have HIV disease, if you don't want the inevitable to happen, you got to do something. And that something may not be all pleasure. It's serious grown-up stuff this HIV disease and it requires serious treatment. The treatment is not perfect, not pleasant. But it has been proven that your life will be extended..10..20 even more years. These are the facts.

People who have diabetes need to deal with their serious disease, if not, terrible things WILL happen. So you either get the facts -- that we will all die, some of us sooner then others and that when faced with a challenge we got to be grown up enough to look ourselves in the mirror and accept the truth. Hiding and watching our numbers slump is just ridiculous. It's like those guys you hear about-- they eat so much they can't fit through their door anymore and need a forklift to take them out. Didn't they see this coming??? Didn't they listen to others?

So watch your numbers. Or move to Africa where you will have the company of other people doomed to watch their body fall apart and the list of opportunistic infections crop up one by one. Remember you are amazingly LUCKY if it doesn't happen to you (cause it happened to 300,000 people in the US before these new drugs came along). Cause on average there is an inevitable progression in HIV disease. And only your psychologist knows why you're not hearing all these warnings... but in the end like the fat man in the room, it's your choice and if a shortened life is what you want then I guess it's what you'll get. We all got to set our goals...



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Ronnie
Unregistered

Re: Faith versus Cocktails new
      #12283 - 11/14/00 11:39 PM

Ronnie wrote:
I believe that taking the meds would be a constent reminder that something was wrong with me.

jokesonyou wrote:
So instead you get your blood work done over and over and talk about your numbers online. You're right! That's a much better approach to not being reminded about things being wrong with you.

Ronnie reply:
When I first read the joker's response, I almost replied with an angry message. But I instead let his words sink in. And I realized that he must have thought that like a person in a coma, I needed a slap. So he administered one - in public.

I know many people think I'm crazy for not taking the meds with my numbers at the level they are at. But I have a really hard time trusting the government, the phamarcuetical companies and the doctors they seem to own. Because I haven't had any opportunistic infections - I don't yet feel I want to take these poisonous meds. I hold on to a hope that illness is more than what Western science knows - that my numbers don't tell the whole story about what is going on in my body. Am I the only one out there with these kind of beliefs?




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robin
Unregistered

Re: Faith versus Cocktails new
      #12961 - 11/28/00 02:25 PM

Ronnie I have to share this with you. I'm fortunately not + but what I have here for you to read might help you, I know it can't hurt and it could very well change your life.

my e-mail is ylg4sky@aol.com
robin
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
MEDICAL SCIENCE PROVING NONI BOOSTS IMMUNE SYSTEM FUNCTION

Much of the information for this article was obtained from an interview with Dr. Darryl M. See, M.D., Associate Clinical Professor of Medicine, in the division of Infectious Diseases, at UC – Irvin Medical School. Dr. See has published several text book chapters and over twenty-five peer-review journal articles on chronic viral illnesses and immunologic disorders.
Dr. see has spent the past five years screening over four hundred different natural products in the laboratory for safety and immunologic enhancement. During that time his work has focused on an immune system cell called the natural killer cell. In an article published by Dr. See in the Scandinavian Journal of Immunology in April 1997, Dr. See describes the importance of this cell in protecting the body from viral infections and cancers. According to Dr. See, his philosophy in the treatment of chronic immunologic or viral diseases is to stimulate or balance the immune system in a non-toxic manner using natural products. Dr. See notes that the vast majority of the natural products that he has screened have not passed his vigorous testing procedures. Some he has found, are actually quite toxic to immune cells. Most of the products simply have no effect at all on natural killer cell function. Still others had some effect, but led to the production of stimulated natural killer cells that produce hormones that can imbalance the global immune system function. However, one natural product tested by Dr. See about which he is very excited is (Tahitian) Noni. Dr. See notes that Noni is completely non-toxic and that his laboratory work has shown that Noni increased the natural killer cell function in persons with normal immune systems, as well as in patients with defective immune systems, such as people with AIDS and chronic Fatigue Syndrome. And it does not disrupt the normal immune system balance.
According to Dr. See, there are a large number of diseases that are characterized by decreased natural killer cell function. These include autoimmune diseases such as lupus, all types of cancers, some forms of diabetes, hepatitis B and C, and all viral infections. In addition, Dr. See notes that pregnancy and injuries, as well as a host of other processes that each of us encounters on a daily basis, act to decrease natural killer cell function. Studies have been done which show that there is a correlation between low natural killer cell function and chronic fatigue in otherwise normal individuals. Basis upon such studies, it appears that the natural killer cells regulate the body is some way in which normal functioning is required to maintain normal energy levels. When natural killer cells are suppressed from stress or anxiety for example, people are much more susceptible to colds and flu. Our bodies are constantly bombarded with chemicals and toxins in our air, water, and soil. They are everywhere; Scientists have even found them at the North Pole.
According to Dr. See, each of us has cells in our body which have their DNA damaged on a daily basis. This leads to cancerous cells. One primary reason why these do not flourish into full-blown cancers, is that natural killer cells scavenge our body, searching out and destroying these cells before they can cause further damage. Since we cannot get away from dangerous pollutants, it seems that the most logical approach is to focus on protecting our immune system from their harmful effects.
Dr. See’s laboratory studies with Noni have yielded some exciting results. First, in people with normal immune systems, Noni increased the function of their natural killer cells by fifty percent. Therefore, even people with normal immune systems can, according to Dr. See’s, use Noni to assist in guarding their body from fatigue, cancer formation, the onset of chronic diseases and colds and flu’s. The effects of Noni in Dr. See’s work on patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome who have severely decreased natural killer cell function, were more pronounced. Natural killer cell function increased by over 300% with the introduction of Noni. The final group studied by Dr. See was AIDS patients. These patients have extremely low natural killer cell function, which decreases with the progress of their illness. Sr. See’s work in the laboratory showed that the addition of Noni stimulates natural killer cell function by up to 700%. Gilbert Nordan, one of Dr. See’s patients, had researched a variety of alternative methods for combating AIDS, before trying Noni. After adding Noni to his regime of vitamins and alternative therapies for just 37 days, blood tests confirmed a reduction in Gilbert’s viral load that Dr. See labeled as both “statistically and clinically significant.”
Studies have shown that patients with the highest natural killer cell function do the best. Maintaining natural killer cell function is important in preventing and fighting many chronic diseases. It can also be important for healthy people to do as much as possible to strengthen their immune system, as protection against the adverse effects of daily stress, as well as from pollutants that bombard the immune system. Dr. See has been so encouraged by the results of his laboratory work that he is planning clinical trials using Noni on patients with AIDS.





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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Faith versus Cocktails new
      #13510 - 12/10/00 10:03 AM

I've heard of this riduclous Noni juice. It's a pyramid game--juice that sells for an outrageous amount, We've gotten calls at our AIDS organization for this. There are NO studies and only anecdotal reports. If juice was this helpful then Africa and Asia would use it. These people are just trying to make money off of desparate people.



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Terry P.
Unregistered

Re: Faith versus Cocktails new
      #15872 - 02/20/01 07:01 PM

I too am in a similar situation. Perhaps my viral load is much higher (about 500,000) My T4 are at about 6. I have tried meds but cannot tolerate the side effects. They also make other problems more severe. I'll never tell anyone not to take the meds. But I'll never criticize those who don't. Whether the viewpoint is a doctor's or not this is my body and I know what's best for me. I accept full responsibility for my life. I am very happy and lead a very fulfilling life. Do I want it to end soon? No, because I have so much to do. However I will not allow anyone to make me feel guilty for my decisions. If they have a problem about my choices, that's their problem, not mine.



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