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you convinced me I HIV negative 6 years ago, today my daughter could have AIDS
Sep 19, 2010

Hi Doctor

Its been several years since my last post to you; below I will highlight the previous posts. As I suspected many years ago I have indeed infected my daughter with an HIV like virus, I only say hiv like virus and not hiv because of all my many many HIV tests have been negative and so have my daughters Elisa test done yesterday along with a barrage if blood tests for Hep A,B,C, autoimmune tests. My daughter is in hospital after being sick for 6 weeks straight, abdominal pains, body pains etc. A FBC was done hand the results are as follows: WBC 2.7 low CRP 21 Neutrophils ABS 1.0 result Neutropenia if which I have read is advanced stage of aids Liver Gamma gt 158 ALT 161 AST 151

Her liver is fighting an infection of which the tests results so far show negative for autoimmune antibodies, Hep ABC, HIV negative. She will undergo a bone marrow test within the next few days. Its been 8 years since my exposure and my daughter was infected somehow through my bodily fluids about during the 1st year when I was most infectious, since my last post I have lived a relatively normal life on the advise from yourself and others and this is where it has led to, my daughter now fighting for her life. All this time lost where something could have been done. The tragedy is I have had 2 more children since my infection and in all likelihood they are also infected.

I have not told my daughter doctors of my incident, I should be telling them so they have an avenue to follow as they are currently lost on her he blood tests and cannot explain her symptoms thus cannot treat her accordingly.

My question to you sir is do I tell them and ask them to do a tcell count of which I'm sure will reveal that she has aids or do I wait and see what they find in time. They will obviously not do a cd4/cd8 test as the HIV test has been negative. I have always said that I cannot live with myself for what I have done and already contemplating how I will take my life within the coming days. I noticed that you are on leave till 10 September and may not be around to see your response if you respond at all. I know you probably dont want to post my question as it will raise plenty of attention from your readers who will question their status once again. However if this is not evidence enough for you that there is an HIV virus that is not detectable via the current tests then I dont know what will convince you and the medical fraternity. It is sad that my family will probably die a slow death with no treatment because you will not accept that there are people out there that have HIV despite testing negative. I hope that I will still be around to see your response. The reason I have not told the doctors is it will bring up the past with my wife and she will surely hate me for what I have done to her and our children or maybe there is a 0.0000000000000000000001 chance that I may well be wrong, or maybe I am just being a coward.

I cannot live with myself any longer, what do I do?

P.s. I have been suffering with neuropathy, lymph node pain every since the exposure

many thanks ANdy

Well, do you use the expression "snowball's chance in Hell May 14, 2004

SA guy, update name is Andy beg of you to read Feb 6, 2004

Hi Doc,

I am still a follower of yours and keep up to date with your site almost daily, I have in the passed apologized for my actions during my stressfull times and wish to apologize once more.I have know where to turn and am at a loss.

Anyway I confessed to my wife about the whole story about 2 months ago, since then we have been seeing a counsolor to see if we can move on from this ordeal. I hope you remember me the guy from South Africa that infected his wife, daughter and newborn son which nobody believes me. Its been about 1.8 years since the exposure. My immediare concern is for my daughter who has been having multiple symptoms ever since she was exposed to my bodily fluids. She often complains of pains in her armpits, groin area, headaches, nausea, skin problems and every 3 months she comes down with a fever along with many other symptoms. I have read that childrens medium time to AIDS is 3.5 years, that means i will probaby be around and watch her die without the help that i desperatly need from the medical community. There must be someone willing to help, do you knwo of amy specialist in SA that could help, I am currently in Angola working here for some , the reason is becuase i cannot sit by at home and watch my family suffer, my wife constantly has nuasea, vommiting, no appetite and has lost 20 kgs in the last year, dizzy spells etc. I still have neuropahty, persistent rashes, boils etc, headaches, loose stool etc. Why wont the doctors listen to me for once and beleive in me when I say that this is real and is happenign to my family. MY nwborn son had suffered with 3 bacterial infections since being born. Are you and ohter doctors just going to sit by until one of us has full blown AIDS, will you then do somehting about this. My dermotologist says that she only noticed the rashes i have in immune compromised patients. Why are you doctors not openminded to the fact that yes we may be infected with a strain that is not dectected by the current tests. The freakin suicidal thoughts are back becuase i cannot live and watch m famiy die. I know you will not post or reply to my message but i want you to be kept uptodate as you were the first and only doctor that genuinly responsed and cared about my situation. I jus hope you taking the time to read my posts

just to remind you I was the one with cryptospridim and many other symptoms.

Andy

Response from Dr. Frascino

Hello Andy,

I'm glad you are being honest with your wife, seeing a counselor, and getting help for your problem. However, if I remember your story correctly, you are not HIV-positive. You've had many, many tests; many, many doctors; and the conclusion is always the same HIV-negative. Isn't that correct? As I've told you many times before, having cryptosporidium does not mean you automatically have HIV. I can't diagnose your condition over the Internet, but if all your tests have remained negative, as I suspect they have, you need to work with your counselor on ways to accept your HIV-negative status.

Good luck on your journey back to health. I think you are now on the correct path.

Dr. Bob

Hi Dr Bob

This is ANdy from South Africa, you have answered many post of mine and 1 of your statements made to me is "Well, do you use the expression "snowball's chance in Hell". Doctor I have finally realized that I need to move on with my life as my wife and I have been seeing a counselor for several months. My wife has forgiven me for cheating on her but according to the psychiatrist we will not be able to move on unless I give up this fear of HIV which I so dearly want to. I am at a point in my life where being unemployed for the last couple of years due to circumstances I now found a wonderful job and want to make a success of it. I want to make my marriage work and love life again. So what I'm asking you is can I andm y family 100% forget about having any form of HIV 12345678910 given that fact that my daughter and i still suffer with angular chelitis, the last 4 weeks we all have been suffering with nuasea almost daily and yesterday my daughter was vommiting the whole day, i myself with stmoach cramps and diarreah and my wife last week vomiting. My lymph nodes hurt constantly behind knees, elbos, armpits, groin. Neuropathy pains in hands and feet most fingers and toes. These rashes on my arms and chest area daily they are like bumps on the skin pink in colour but do not itch. Stomach rumbling all the time again the whole family. My duaghter complaining atlest twice a week about stomach pains and pains in groin areas. My wife dizzyness and also pains in groin. My newborn son is now 1 year old and has had several bacterial infection, dairreah, vomitting over the last week also.

Blood tests consitently high wbc 12, eusoniphils, elevated cd8 1200 and low ratio 0.9. CRP high

With all this happening to me and my family can I conclusively say that this is not HIV for the last time?

thanks ANdy

ps I have posted below my story to refresh your memory. No need to post this part if you do reply to me

This is my exposure and symptoms 1.5 years ago with a sex worker

Symptoms I experienced since the high risk exposure vaginal sex, oral sex, fingering with cut fresh cut in finger. The symptoms are as follows and as best as I can remember.

Pain in the penis which was confirmed to be prostate infection that needed several courses of antibiotics. Extreme body itching that's lasted for 2 weeks. Dark urine for a couple of months. Sore throat that lasted for weeks and did not respond to medication. Ear pain with no sign of infection, Sore joints and muscles, pain in my left breast, low grade fever, painful glands in groin, armpits, behind knees, swollen glands in neck, back of head for 2 weeks diagnosed by doctor, diarrhea that lasted for 5 weeks, crypto found in stool and ongoing loose/floating and narrow stool till today, Mucous out of rectum, 4 nights of severe night sweats, Rashes throughout the last 13 months, first started with rash on top of my chest . Several weeks after huge staph boils in various parts of my body confirmed by biopsy. Weeks later a hive like rashon my forearm that lasted for several weeks which was not itchy. Then started having rash on ears which was flaky - Seborric Dermatitis. After that rash I started breaking out with extremely itchy rashes across my body which was diagnosed as follocilitus by the dermatologist. This rash I still have but not as bad as before. Sores in the corner of my mouth for 3 months continuously. 5 Ulcers on my gums, inflammation of my gums, bad stomach cramps with loud rumbling noises that continue to this day. Pins and needles in feet and hands, legs going numb and almost everyday I wake up with my hands numb and I need to shake it off to come right. Ongoing neuropathy pain in toes and fingers, eye infection confirmed by Eye specialist felt the eyelids wanted to close all the time, eye twitching for 3 months with eyelid still drooping and occasional eye pain, eye floaters little squiggly things in my sight, extreme fatigue for several weeks whereby I would come home from work and go to bed by 7pm, dry skin.

Symptoms currently still experiencing : Neuropathy pains, pins and needles, itchy rash, white coated tongue, rumbling noise in stomach, soft and narrow stool with occasional bouts of Diarrhea, eye pain, sore throat. Pain in armpits, groin , behind knees went away 6 months ago and has started up again 3 week agoqaz .

My wife

sore throat ear infection that the doctors could not pickup nausea and vomiting for several days before she got pregnant, worse when she was pregnant and throughout her pregnancy, fever, 3 night of severe night sweats as I slept next to her and noticed it whereby I was fine at the time, on itchy rash on her body ongoing white coated tongue, diarrhea and ongoing loose stool, Pins and Needles, Dizziness and fainting throughout pregnancy and also after birth, headaches,and recently numb hands and legs and also she complains of hands numb while sleeping, depression, inflammation of gums.

Symptoms she currently experiences are : pins and needles, numb hands and feet, dizziness, depression, chronic sore throat for 3 months that does not respond to antibiotics, rumbling noise in stomach

My 5 year old Daughter You may ask how did she get exposed, my view is that when I had all those open staph sores or the blisters around my mouth she was always kissing her father and maybe thats how she picked it up

Nausea High fever for 4 days vommiting boils warts diarreah loose/floating stool for several months weird rashes and very sensitive skin since pain arounf her vagina coated tongue sores around outside of mouth Intermittant complaints of pain in her fingers, toes, elbow many ulcers in her mouth currently has Pityriasis Rosea

Tests 20 weeks CD4 850 - CD8 890 CD4 38% CD8 50% CD4/CD8 0.9 - Toga Labs 1 year CD4 1150 - CD8 1253 CD4 33% CD8 36% CD4/CD8 0.9 - Innovir 1 year 3 months CD4 850 - CD8 803 CD4 36% CD8 36% CD4/CD8 1.02 Toga Labs

My CD4 should be 2 to 1 CD8, instead my CD8 is out of range, my ratio is reversed and my CD4% has fallen which I have read all this to be indicative of HIV. Several Elisa and PCR tests and all negative. Tested for all other viruses and diseases known and all negative

Wierd happenings : tummy rumbling all of us with unusually high amounts of gas burning tongue

Response from Dr. Frascino

Hello South African Andy,

Welcome back to the forum. From the tone of your most recent post, I can tell you're making excellent progress battling against your irrational fears of HIV infection. I'm particularly encouraged that:

1. You have "finally realized that you need to move on with your life."

2. You and your wife are seeing a counselor.

3. Your wife has forgiven you for cheating.

4. You "dearly want" to give up your fear of HIV.

5. You have a wonderful new job and want to make a success of it.

6. You want to make your marriage work and love life again.

I'll stand by my "snowball's chance in Hell" analogy. You and your family are not suffering form HIV. HIV is not your problem. If you reread all my previous posts to you, you'll see my opinion has not changed. Andy, continue to work with your counselor. You are indeed back on the road to health and happiness. HIV was never the cause of your problems; fear of HIV was! That fear can be devastating. However, as you can now begin to see, it can also be conquered if one focuses on facts rather than fears.

Keep up the good work, Andy, and rest assured that the only thing "positive" about you is your new attitude! And that's a good thing! Welcome to the rest of your life, Andy. And as Jimmy Stewart said, "It's a Wonderful Life!"

Response from Dr. Frascino

Hello Andy from South Africa,

Yes, I certainly remember you and your entire very sad story. I'm sorry to see that after eight years you are still plagued with the identical irrational fears and that you are once again having suicidal thoughts due to guilt.

Your daughter may well have some type of medical condition; however, it has nothing to do with HIV or an HIV-like virus. As in the past you are misinterpreting laboratory studies. Previously you thought having cryptosporidium meant you had AIDS. It does not. Now you are assuming your daughter's marginally low white count means she has "advanced stage AIDS." Again you are wrong. It does not!

You've also stated in previous questions that I would not post your concerns or provide you with a response. Once again you are wrong. The only reason I would consider not posting your question is that it has nothing to do with HIV (or an HIV-like illness) and my assessment and advice have not changed from the numerous responses I've already posted to your repetitive concerns.

Andy my advice is straightforward and I hope you will accept it:

1. You once again need psychiatric help for your suicidal thoughts, guilt and depression.

2. You've already leveled with your wife in the past; you should continue to be honest with her and discuss your current (recurrent) fears.

3. Continue to work closely with a good pediatrician to evaluate what's happening with your daughter. There are many underlying medical conditions that could explain both her symptoms and laboratory results. A competent pediatrician will identify her diagnosis.

4. Print out a copy of all your previous posts (including this one) and my responses. Show these to your psychiatrist. You can also show them to the physicians evaluating your daughter. Do not delay in getting the psychiatric help you so desperately need.

Finally, no, I will not "accept there are people out there that have HIV despite testing negative." Andy, take a read through the chapter in the archives entitled "I'm Positive I'm Positive." It's filled with posts from folks like you who were "100% convinced" (some 110%!) they were HIV infected. As it turns out, not a single one (absolutely none!) of them was actually infected. Andy, I've evaluated many cases like yours over the past quarter of a century. None of them turned out to be positive either. Rather than being so very certain that I and all of the many, many doctors and many, many tests that you've had over the past eight years are wrong, what about considering you are wrong??? I can assure you with absolute certainty you are indeed wrong, and I have absolutely no hesitation or reservation about posting this response.

Good luck Andy. Ultimately I hope you will realize HIV is not and never was your problem.

Dr. Bob



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