no true scientific proof that hiv exists - see website (AIDS DENIALISM, 2010)
Mar 13, 2010
hey, I know you have adressed this topic multiple times, however it would be good to know whether it is a lie that hiv has never been seen under EM as is stated in this article about how the virus through rna pcr is detected and in testing antibodies to the virus. Here is the website, so that you can research it. Please let us know what you think, as it indicates that proper scientific method is not used regarding isolating HIV but rather indicates that certain proteins that are common among various other mycoplasmas, fungus, etc produce the same test results. Many places it also states that people who have run down immune systems due to numerous std's are much more likely to get HIV which could indicate that merely a busy immune system needing to deal with too many things at a time causes immune failure. If a virus was never truly visualized, then where is the scientific proof, as opposed to severly convincing circumstantial evidence. There would be no model to proove a theory of overburdoned immune system as the combinations would proove prohibitive to scientific investigation, so is it possible that the scientists bended the rules a bit to allow circumstantial evidence to become fact. This is not to say that there is not a virus, but this article states that there was never concrete proof, only mathmatical evidence. here is the article http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/hiv/eppretoria.htm and this article as well although not as scientifically written http://www.fearoftheinvisible.com/hivtest
Response from Dr. Frascino
See below. I've already addressed this Web site and the topic of AIDS denialism extensively. Don't be fooled by the nonsense and pseudoscience of that Web site or the rapidly dwindling number of AIDS denialists who support these repeatedly disproven theories. It's all pure poppycock!
AN ACTUARIAL ANALYSIS OF THE AIDS EPIDEMIC IN THE U.S. Aug 13, 2009
what are your thoughts and opinions on this article? http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/hiv/pptalk.htm
Response from Dr. Frascino
The Web site you reference is an "AIDS Denialist" Web site. I have discussed this dwindling idiotic fringe group many times before in this forum. (Check the archives.) The article you reference is from 1994, ancient history in the world of HIV/AIDS. It's also complete balderdash! Check out the science that debunks these illogical farfetched claims at www.AIDSTruth.org.
I'll reprint below a post from the archives that addresses AIDS Denialism.
Prove that HIV causes AIDS Jan 16, 2009
There is a lot of talk on here about Duesberg and the Perth Group. You say that their so called 'dangerous' beliefs have been disputed time and time again yet this is not true. Many of the questions asked by some of these 'denialists' have never been answered satisfactorily. To this day there is still no convincing scientific evidence to prove that HIV leads to AIDS. The test itself should be abolished. How do you explain the growing number of people who have tested positive and then reversed their status back to negative? How do you explain that an HIV positive persons cd4 count gets higher and the viral load is undetectable after being positive for 15 years on NO medication? Is it not true that there are over 60 conditions that can give you a false positive on an HIV test? There are a significant number of cases of people who tested positive after recently having a flu vaccine and then 6 months later their test is negative. How do you explain this? Is it not true that so far there are over 60,000 cases of AIDS patients who died in the 80's but were never tested for HIV? Is it not also true that the results are 'interpreted'according to whether you belong in a risk group or not? Is it not also true that you can test positve for HIV in Africa where only two coloured bands on the WB are required for a positive result yet if that same person was to come to Australia, they would test negative because 4 bands are required for a positive result? How come if you ask your doctor to prove that a positive result is proof of HIV itself that they can provide no such proof? It's not just Duesberg and the Perth Group who deny the HIV=AIDS myth - the number of credible doctors, scientists and run of the mill citizens who dispute this theory is growing! The truth will set you free!
Response from Dr. Frascino
Detailed scientific answers to each and every one of your questions (many of which have been recycled for years by the dwindling number of people who refuse to believe science or common sense) are available at www.AIDSTruth.org. Check it out! You have much to learn. The one thing you and I definitely agree on is your last statement: "The truth will set you free."
I will make a few comments about AIDS denialism in general for our readers who may not know the history of this misguided cult. In the early years of the epidemic, a few scientists postulated that HIV infection may not be the cause of AIDS. They suggested a number of other potential explanations, such as AZT causing AIDS in developed nations and malnutrition causing AIDS in the developing world. These scientists argued that "Koch's postulates" have not been fulfilled and suggested that antiretroviral therapy rather than being life sustaining was actually killing people. (Koch's postulates are a series of four distinct criteria that need to be fulfilled to conclusively prove that a germ, microbe or organism is the cause of a specific disease.)
The AIDS denialists hypothesis was far fetched when it was proposed in the 80s and today we know it is complete lunacy. Koch's postulates have been fulfilled many times over. We now have solid scientific evidence of how HIV infects human cells, damages the immune system and results in AIDS. The life-sustaining effects of antiretroviral drugs have also been absolutely established by countless clinical trials and large epidemiological observational studies. The death rate from AIDS plummeted by 50% the year after HAART was introduced!!! It's hard to argue with facts such as these.
The AIDS denialists are a dwindling cult. Many have either died prematurely while some have come to their senses and started therapy. These feckless whack-jobs would be nothing more than amusing if it weren't for the influence they have exerted on some gullible individuals. They have encouraged some very scared folks into believing their myths and even affected the health policy of South Africa, which resulted in tremendous human tragedy.
Researchers from the Harvard School of Public Health have calculated that the South African government's refusal to provide antiretroviral drugs (because Mbeki, their president, was influenced by AIDS denialists) resulted in 330,000 lives being prematurely snuffed out by the virus between 2000 and 2005!
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