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new reality guy is right
Aug 7, 2009

The post entitled new reality in which he expresses concerns that there are many who have undeniable symptoms of hiv after a risky exposure but continue to test negative even past window period should not be taken lightly. I have OHL and Kaposis and both diagnosed but have always tested negative first at 7 months and the latest at 5 years. Over 20 tests including elisa, western blot, pcr-dna, among others and been banned from an immunology center for over testing. Yet noone can explain conclusive symptoms after a high risk heterosexual exposure. My only conclusions: I beat it[do not think so], rare strain, something is out there we do not know about. I just do not believe we can all say we are negative just because we test so. I wish we could. I believe of course it is true most of time but unfortunately I do not believe testing is conclusive in all of us. I still appreciate what you do Dr. Bob

Response from Dr. Frascino

Hi,

You've been banned from the immunology center for over-testing??? Wow. That's impressive!

If you read my comments carefully, you'll realize I am not "denying" anyone's symptoms. Rather I'm just pointing out the cause of those symptoms is not HIV. You, for instance, have had "over 20 tests, including ELISA, Western Blot, PCR-DNA, among others," all of which have been negative. Yet you continue to perseverate on HIV. Why? The evidence is overwhelming and irrefutable that you do not have HIV. The "symptoms" associated with HIV/AIDS are not specific only to that disease. These symptoms can be associated with many other underlying conditions, for instance any cause of immunosuppression or immunodeficiency. Continuing to chase after an illness you could not possibly have is merely delaying your true diagnosis and treatment. Why worry about a "new reality" when you've having so much difficulty accepting current reality (and common sense)!

Dr. Bob

A new reality FYI Aug 1, 2009

Although you guys (doctors at the body) mean well while giving advice about symptoms and testing, I think its time you admit to a new reality (2009). There are too many coincidences here from patients reporting severe chronic symptoms after impulsive sex on the wild side. Let me explain... Yes there are those suffering from guilt, anxiety, remorse etc. after a risky walk on the wild side but there are far too many people reporting illness (you cant blame everything on psychosomatic illness). Peoples whose blood work is definitely off, many people reporting low cd4's, inflated cd8's lowering and inverted ratios coupled with symptoms they have never experienced before. Give people credit, they know their bodies, they live in them. It is probably fair to say that with the current known types of hiv that antibody tests are accurate beyond the window period. Yes anxiety can be severe, but it wont cause the multitude and severity of symptoms a large number of people are reporting, lymphadenopathy, vision changes, thrush, tinnitus etc. Im sure you wont respond to this post. Although I do thank you very much Dr. Bob for taking the time to answer my previous posts. Its time to admit that there is another disease out there either related to Hiv or at least sexually transmitted. I for one know there is something wrong in my body occurring soon after a probable exposure, not a coincidence I guarantee you. If it wasnt for the persistent few (and concerned doctors) whom pursued answers before strains N and O were discovered the medical community would still be at a loss. Dont misunderstand I am certainly not trying to have this disease. I desperately want to believe all the negative antibody tests but my body says otherwise. The best hiv assay is after all the human body. We the public look to you for guidance, to repeatedly tell us its depression, anxiety etc. is an insult to us and to you (the medical community). Please guide us, at least suggest other diseases or conditions that we could ask our own local doctors to look into for us. The body.com has ID doctors, Immunologists, Hematologists etc. Do not insult us and you, but guide us.

P.S. I do admire you Dr. Bob, not because of your status, but because of your guidance.

Response from Dr. Frascino

Hi,

A new reality??? Hmm . . . and you base this on "too many coincidences." Sorry dearie. Coincidences are not science-based fact.

You point out HIV-antibody negative folks have blood work that is "definitely off," such as "low CD4's and inflated CD8's and inverted ratios." As I have frequently advised in this forum, CD4s and CD8s are not specific only to HIV disease. There is also no reason to order these tests if you are HIV-antibody negative. What you are seeing is "normal" fluctuation based on conditions completely unrelated to HIV.

You ask me to "give people credit," but you clearly don't credit the collective wisdom of HIV specialist physicians who have been intensely studying this disease for over a quarter of a century!?!

You doubt anxiety can cause a multitude of symptoms. Once again you are mistaken. May I ask what medical school you graduated from that makes you qualified to make such statements?

Next you write: "I'm sure you won't respond to this post." Why not? Once again you seem to be mistaken!

"It's time to admit there is another disease out there . . . ." Sure, there are all sorts of diseases out there. Ebola, for example. You don't have that one either. What I and the other HIV physician experts have repeatedly said is that a valid HIV-antibody test outside the window period trumps non-specific "symptoms" each and every time. In other words those symptoms are not related to HIV. I also frequently advise that if you've had an extensive medical workup and a second opinion and still no physical cause for your "multitude of symptoms" can be identified, you should consider an evaluation for psychosomatic disease. Psychosomatic illness creates very real symptoms, by the way.

As for the discovery of the N and O strains, this had nothing to do with "the persistent few whom pursued answers"! The discovery was related to ongoing careful study of the evolution of the pandemic. If and when new strains evolve, we'll let you know, OK?

You report: "I desperately want to believe all the negative antibody tests . . . ." You correctly identified your problem: You can't "believe" the results. Your problem is not believing the reality of your situation! You have overwhelming and irrefutable evidence that you are HIV negative. Yet you don't believe it. The best treatment for that condition is psychotherapy (counseling) to help you accept the wonderful news that HIV is not your problem! You may consider this advice "insulting," but again that's your perception problem.

You ask that I "suggest other diseases." I can't diagnose a condition over the Internet based solely on reported symptoms. However I can with absolute certainty advise you when HIV has been ruled out as a potential cause.

As always, it's up to you whether to accept our assessment and advice. I would suggest you review the archives of this forum. There are a number of testimonials from folks who were 100% certain (up to "250% certain" in one case) they were HIV infected who ultimately realized they were HIV negative. Once they accepted that reality their symptoms "miraculously" disappeared.

Dr. Bob



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