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a new cd4...
Apr 8, 2007

Dear Dr. Bob,an assistance call,Iam completely at the end.I know,you answered me already however my situation is more and more extrem.I was Thomas from Germany,married,2 loves children.To the time ill,because Iam psychologically finished.I had a hiv risk,short on it all symptoms.(no fever)Since this time Iam correctly ill.I suffer border pain,dry skin,some herpes,daily pain.(nervepain of hands,feets,elbow,knee,sometimes entire body,groin)The worst are the pain,for which severalphysicians(also neurologists) not found the cause. My tests:I had over 20 months repeatedly(15) elisa-tests hiv1/2. I had in this timeseveral times pcr-tests for hiv1 and hiv2.(proviral pcr-dna, pcr-rna) After this time I have a PERT-assay and a virus-culture done.(in a special laboratory)All tests neg.! However,the development of my blood values is alarming! The risk was Nov.2002 -to Aug.2004 (20months) I accomplished elisa/pcr-tests,in the summer 2006 then still PERT/virusculture. The development of the blood is bad. Jan.2004:cd4 960/41% Oct.2004:cd4 535/35 Aug.2005: cd4 720/41 Jan.2006 cd4 595/35. Last week I let a new test run,the result shocked me. CD4 479/30% ! However,in all tests was the cd4/cd8 more than 1,5. Liver enzymes are increased,and above all much to low cd19 cells.From 115/7% now to 75/4%. In all investigations NK-cells always were high.(30%). c-reactive protein and sed rate were o.k. Dear Doctor,please help! Other infectionsbecame rule out.My physician is the bad worth despite against each further investigation.I believe I do not have antibodies because of the low cd19. However I was in former time always healthy. It is a hopeless situation.How can my life go on??? If you would help I would be very very grateful. Thank you Thomas

Response from Dr. Frascino

Hello Thomas from Germany,

My assessment of your situation has not changed. HIV is not your problem. No way. No how. Exactly how you choose to live with this incontrovertible fact is up to you. I see no reason for your multiple HIV-related tests when you clearly are not infected. Once again, I believe your problems are most likely psychosomatic. I urge you to seek the help of a psychiatrist and to stop chasing a disease you clearly do not have.

Dr. Bob

years of hell Jul 1, 2005

Dear Dr.Robert Frascino,I hope you will read it,sorry for the bad english.I wrote you 2004 and you answered.Thank you.But sorry,I hope you can give me a last help in 2005.I was Thomas from Germany,had a risk in Nov.2002.Some days later I had ARS-symptoms.Since this time I am hopeless and sick.I have so much symptoms-pain in the body,in the lymp-areas,folliculitis,white and painfull tongue and more...Hiv-symptoms.I had 2 cd4-tests.In Jan.2004 960/40%,in Oct.2004 540/35%! It was a shock! BUT-I have done a lot of elisa-tests(more than 10!) about 20 months(from Dez.2002-Aug.2004)All tests neg.(in Germany it is for HIV 1/2)And I have done 3 pcr-dna-tests for hiv 1and 2(after 5,7 and 10 months in the "virologie Uni Erlangen"in Germany) Dear Dr.Bob please help me!!!-Symptoms every day ,a low cd4 in oct.2004(it was my last test I have done)- but a lot of neg. antibody-and pcr-tests about 20 months.Dear Dr.,the symptoms not in my head,they are real!I answered a lot of doctors-the answer was:"You have done enough tests,you are neg".Nobody can help me,it is the ruin of my life,my family and job.Please,Dear Dr.Robert Frascino,answer me.WHAT CAN I DO?You are a great expert,you are my hope.How many cases you know about,who tested neg. about 20 months(elisa and pcr-dna)and later pos.? And the other question -should I take a new cd4-test??? Please answer me- I will all do what you say!!! Thank you for reading my question,and Robert-I hope of you. Thomas

Response from Dr. Frascino

Hello Thomas,

I'll be brief, because HIV is not your problem.

1. Your two CD4 tests (960/40% and 540/35%) are both completely normal and therefore not "shocking" at all.

2. Ten negative ELISAs out to 20 months plus three negative PCR-DNAs are definitive (and excessive!!!).

3. How many cases with test results like yours later became positive? None.

4. Should you take another CD4 test? No.

Thomas, I have no doubt you are "hopeless and sick." However, HIV is not the cause. I strongly advise you stop chasing after a disease you could not possibly have. I also suggest you see a psychiatrist to help you cope with your irrational fears. That's the best pathway back to "hope and wellness," OK?

Good luck.

Dr. Bob

a last ditch attempt Jan 12, 2006

Dear Dr. Frascino, I hope you have patience with me. Here is Thomas from Dresden, Germany. I need help. I am on the end of my tether. I had a risk and since this time I am seriously ill.I have much symptoms(lymph pain, groin-pain,skin problems,body-pain,pain in arms and legs,itching and more...) My bloodwork is alarming(cd4 between 540 and 960,cd19 repeatedly low/130,nk-cells repeatedly on the upper limit,wbc low/4,5). But all hiv-tests neg.! I have done 10 elisa-tests about 20 months for hiv1/2 and 3 proviral pcr-dna-tests for hiv1 and hiv2.(after 5,7 and 10 months). Every day is the hell. The symptoms, the bad bloodwork are not in my head!Another malady the doctors not found. Please Dr.,say the truth. How many patients you had in your big experience who tested neg. about 20 months( repeatedly elisa and pcr) but were infected? What is the probability? Should I do a cd4-test every 6 months? I am 100% sure to be infected. When you would have a patient with all symptoms but all tests neg.-what would you do??? Please help me with your opinion and big experience. Thank you very much and all the best for you! Thomas

Response from Dr. Frascino

Hello Thomas,

Let me respond to your specific questions first:

1. The advice I give here is always truthful.

2. Number of patients in my experience who tested negative for 20 months with repeated ELISAs and PCRs, who were subsequently found to be HIV infected? Zero! Zip! Nada! None!

3. What is the probability? Zero! Zip! Nada! None!

4. Should you do CD4 tests every six months? No! Nyet! Absofrickinlutely not!

5. You may be "100% sure" you are infected. I'm "100% sure" you are not.

6. When someone has "all symptoms," but tests negative, what would I do? I'd investigate the cause of the symptoms and stop chasing a disease that could not possibly be the cause.

Thomas, I believe you are at the "end of your tether," and I believe you have "symptoms." I'm also quite sure those symptoms are not caused by HIV. Your lab work is not suggestive of HIV disease. Why are you having CD4 tests run when there is no justification to do so? I see nothing worrisome with your lab results. CD4 cells can and do go up and down for a wide variety of reasons. This is not an HIV-specific test.

Thomas, I suggest you follow up with your doctor, regarding any persistent "symptoms" and that you seek psychiatric/psychological counseling to help you cope with your irrational fears of being HIV positive and being "at the end of your tether!" I also strongly suggest you stop HIV testing. Negative is negative, no matter how many times you run the test. I also suggest you show this post and my reply to your doctor and to your future therapist.

Dr. Bob



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